8x10 Enlarger for Heiland LED Recommendations

[NortheastPhotographic]

Eventually I want to move up to an 8x10 capable enlarger, and my plan will be to get a Heiland LED unit. From my experience with the LPL you basically ditch the mixing box, any filtration units, obviously no condensers. It's just an LED panel that sits a few inches above your film holder, bellows, lens.

So i'm curious what would be a good platform for that set up? I was sort of thinking of a Zone IV upgraded unit if I can find one. But I'm open for recommendations!

I'm also poking at the idea of building a chassis but that's probably a pipe dream with my skills.

 

[Lachlan Young]

Whatever fits under your ceiling - which may preclude Durst's 184 etc machines. Almost all that will be suitable are going to be floor standing unless you go for a Beseler with 8x10 conversion or the Zone VI. Rarely you might find a wall mount De Vere (bench ones seem vanishingly rare - I'm assembling mine out of a 5108 neg stage/ bellows/ lens stage and a 504 column & a few custom made parts - aim being to get a better matched counterweight to the LED head I'm planning). Kienzle make a new bench mount C252 which when ordered with the option of the Heiland head runs about 7000 EUR - a pretty incredible deal as new 8x10 enlargers go.

 

[Frank53]

Eventually I want to move up to an 8x10 capable enlarger, and my plan will be to get a Heiland LED unit. From my experience with the LPL you basically ditch the mixing box, any filtration units, obviously no condensers. It's just an LED panel that sits a few inches above your film holder, bellows, lens.

So i'm curious what would be a good platform for that set up? I was sort of thinking of a Zone IV upgraded unit if I can find one. But I'm open for recommendations!

I'm also poking at the idea of building a chassis but that's probably a pipe dream with my skills.

I have no experience with 8x10, but the Heiland website gives a list with enlargers they support and if you send an email to mr Jürgen Heiland, he usually gives you all the information you need.
Regards,
Frank

 

[NortheastPhotographic]

Whatever fits under your ceiling - which may preclude Durst's 184 etc machines. Almost all that will be suitable are going to be floor standing unless you go for a Beseler with 8x10 conversion or the Zone VI. Rarely you might find a wall mount De Vere (bench ones seem vanishingly rare - I'm assembling mine out of a 5108 neg stage/ bellows/ lens stage and a 504 column & a few custom made parts - aim being to get a better matched counterweight to the LED head I'm planning). Kienzle make a new bench mount C252 which when ordered with the option of the Heiland head runs about 7000 EUR - a pretty incredible deal as new 8x10 enlargers go.

Thank you for that recommendation, I hadn't heard of Kienzle. If that 7000 Euro price point is correct then you are right, that does make it quite a steal. Even on Footprints or Cres you often see 8x10 enlargers in the 8-10k range.

 

[ic-racer]

That would be a great price for the Kienzle. My L1840 Durst chassis only with no head shows $16,450 on its 1988 invoice. I also have a price list showing the L1840 + CLS2000 head at about $90,000 in the late 1990s.
Also note the Rodagon 300 at $1825.
Inflation calculator shows $35,891.73 for the enlarger minus head and $3,981.91 for the lens in today's dollars.

 

[ic-racer]

These new old stock Omega F (8x10) enlargers and heads have probably been sold as they are no longer listed, but the way-back machine can still pull them up with the prices from 2015:

That is $16220.35 for the chassis and $10,282.60 for the color head.

 

[ic-racer]

Here is a youtube video on the Kiensel 8x10 enlarger (starts about 5:00).

 

[mshchem]

I have a 8x10 and a 5x7 Zone VI type 2. Both have the Calumet sourced VC heads, I use a Metrolux II integrating timer. These things AFAIK were made in Italy (the enlargers not the heads) I love these. I have Beseler 4x5 units that I use for medium format. If the VC head would go poof, I would be looking at a LED head. These things work so nice and see little use I doubt I will have a problem. The 5x7 I have setup for 6x17, I had a 6x6 carrier modified by SKG to 6x17 I like better than the factory version. The 8x10 carrier is amazing, stretch out glassless carrier. I would love to try printing color with these enlargers but the LED heads and controllers would be hard for me to justify.

 

[NortheastPhotographic]

These new old stock Omega F (8x10) enlargers and heads have probably been sold as they are no longer listed, but the way-back machine can still pull them up with the prices from 2015:

That is $16220.35 for the chassis and $10,282.60 for the color head.
View attachment 244172

Holy crap. Glad things have gone down quite a bit for weirdos like me still wanting to enlarge big negatives.

 

[NortheastPhotographic]

View attachment 244180

I have a 8x10 and a 5x7 Zone VI type 2. Both have the Calumet sourced VC heads, I use a Metrolux II integrating timer. These things AFAIK were made in Italy (the enlargers not the heads) I love these. I have Beseler 4x5 units that I use for medium format. If the VC head would go poof, I would be looking at a LED head. These things work so nice and see little use I doubt I will have a problem. The 5x7 I have setup for 6x17, I had a 6x6 carrier modified by SKG to 6x17 I like better than the factory version. The 8x10 carrier is amazing, stretch out glassless carrier. I would love to try printing color with these enlargers but the LED heads and controllers would be hard for me to justify.

Those are some great looking enlargers! I think an LED would be just about perfect on a chassis like that.

 

[Lachlan Young]

Thank you for that recommendation, I hadn't heard of Kienzle. If that 7000 Euro price point is correct then you are right, that does make it quite a steal. Even on Footprints or Cres you often see 8x10 enlargers in the 8-10k range.

8x10 enlargers have become pretty thin on the ground in the last few years - a new De Vere 5108 is 12-13K GBP currently.

I've attached what I think is the most up to date Kienzle pricelist and the C252 spec sheet. I think the bench C252 works out to about 7500 EUR currently.

 

[calebarchie]

Mark,

While I was searching for my enlarger I found several available in the states contrary to what Lachlan says - just need to look harder! I have since attained an 8x10 enlarger locally, I will pass on some of contacts shortly.

C

 

[Lachlan Young]

Mark,

While I was searching for my enlarger I found several available in the states contrary to what Lachlan says - just need to look harder! I have since attained an 8x10 enlarger locally, I will pass on some of contacts shortly.

C

Yes - if you want a Durst. They're pretty easy to find stateside and in Europe (and are huge, awkward, all but one head have weird bulb requirements), De Vere 5108's are currently much thinner on the ground at least in Europe. There's a fair few other 10x10's out there too, if you have 10ft ceiling clearance and the necessary masochism.

What I think Mark was saying - and I agree with him - is that if you want the LED head, and don't need a full floor standing machine, the Kienzle does everything for less than you could end up paying for a secondhand machine before you even stick the 4000 EUR LED head on.

 

[mshchem]

Those are some great looking enlargers! I think an LED would be just about perfect on a chassis like that.

One thing. These Zone VI models are great. Just keep in mind that the 5x7 unit is easy to configure down to 35mm. The 8x10 will not focus a lens shorter than 240mm. The carrier is designed for 8x10 only. They are modular so can be configured anyway you want. I didn't go looking for these units, but I really like them. The cold lights absolutely require a compensating timer. The Metrolux II I have has 2 channels so I can run both units off the same timer. The current RH Designs Vario model will work with cold lights.
The setup I have works great for split printing. I've never been a fan of cold lights, but these work well.
The LED setup for the 8x10 with color and VC controllers would, I suspect be over 6,000 USD.

 

[mshchem]

I drove a couple hundred miles round trip to get mine. All from a fellow who had been trying to get rid of the stuff. This stuff cost me next to nothing, which is good because I'm no pro. I would be going nuts in the current situation without this stuff to keep me busy.

 

[btaylor]

Very very nice gear. On the simpler end, I got an Omega F a few years ago. Hadn’t been used in awhile, so it required some effort to clean it up. The existing condenser head was huge and unwieldy. I bought LED light panel for a light source for $80, DIYed some spacers and diffusion and use Ilford contrast filters under the lens. It works. There was a discussion about this over at LFPF if it is of any interest. Later I lucked into a color head for the beast, but the existing system works well enough that I have not bothered to mount it. The total investment has been minimal.

 

[NortheastPhotographic]

I drove a couple hundred miles round trip to get mine. All from a fellow who had been trying to get rid of the stuff. This stuff cost me next to nothing, which is good because I'm no pro. I would be going nuts in the current situation without this stuff to keep me busy.

I keep waiting for a deal like that to come across my way. Though I did drive many many miles for my LPL 4550XL. Totally worth it.

 

[Tom Kershaw]

I keep waiting for a deal like that to come across my way. Though I did drive many many miles for my LPL 4550XL. Totally worth it.

So you've now got a complete darkroom set-up?

 

[NortheastPhotographic]

So you've now got a complete darkroom set-up?

It's functional. I'm still fighting light leaks since I basically have it in the worst possible space, a converted 2 car garage with windows. I've been blocking out the windows best can, then finding that the garage doors leak at the edges. Plus it's still cool in Maine so I'm just fighting to keep my Ansco 130 above 70F. When I have printed I've done so at night. TOday actually is a day I'm finally trying my hardest to really construct some light seals for the garage doors and more pesky windows.

 

[DREW WILEY]

A Durst 138 Chassis can handle an 8x10 conversion if you only need to make prints up to 20x24 inch or so. Makes any Beseler or Zone VI etc chassis look like a toy. Real machining, not a bunch of anodized aluminum. The actual L184 series would obviously be better, but needs a higher ceiling and is harder to move.

 

[carlj]

Very very nice gear. On the simpler end, I got an Omega F a few years ago. Hadn’t been used in awhile, so it required some effort to clean it up. The existing condenser head was huge and unwieldy. I bought LED light panel for a light source for $80, DIYed some spacers and diffusion and use Ilford contrast filters under the lens. It works. There was a discussion about this over at LFPF if it is of any interest. Later I lucked into a color head for the beast, but the existing system works well enough that I have not bothered to mount it. The total investment has been minimal.

Hi,

Do you have a photo of your Chromega F with the LED head? Any more details (what kind of panel, etc.), are you using the original negative carrier or filter drawer? I've also been in touch with Klaus L. (https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/durst-138s-g-139-conversion.16486) who's offering the Durst 138 and Beseler 45MX LED 8x10 conversion heads and he suggests the Durst conversion could likely fit the Chromega with a different adapter plate (goes on the bottom of the LED unit and attaches to the 138s chassis).

Thanks

 

[btaylor]

For carlj:
Here are some pics. Exposure times for B&W 8x10 neg to 11x14 print are about 40 seconds IIRC with under the lens VC Ilford filters. Light source just sits on top of the negative carrier. Picture frame from Target spaces the light panel a sufficient distance from the diffusion material (a Rosco diffusion sheet) to provide even illumination without hot spots.

 

[carlj]

Hi btaylor,

I really appreciate those close-up photos of your Super Chromega F and the LED panel. I didn't realize the panel was 18x24" (good to know). From your photo I looked up slim LED light panels on the Feelis (feelisusa.com) site. They come in standard, slim, and ultra slim widths. For example: http://feelisusa.com/products/light-box-slim/
Do you have a model number? It might be helpful even if the models have changed since you purchased yours (and the site doesn't list prices). They come in a range of color temperatures from 2700 - 9000K and would be interested in which one you have.

Another possibility is I've been in touch with Klaus Lundsgaard who makes the 8x10 LED conversion kit for the Durst 138s and Beseler 45MX. In that case I'd probably only need the light source but since the size of that unit is smaller than your 18x24" panel some fabrication might be needed for a good fit above the negative carrier/filter drawer stage, which looks to not have been necessary with your larger LED panel.

Do you have the Chromega filter drawer that would sit above the negative carrier (I don't see it in the pictures)?

I purchased a couple of the big 24" Rosco sheets -- gel equivalents for 00 and 5 grade filters for split grade -- to try in the filter drawer. I was curious to try the gels even with the Dichroic head as I'm not quite sure about the condition of the filters. It's not a done deal I'll go with an LED light source but I'm definitely interested in finding out more and open to the option.

It's pretty rare to see current photos of a Chromega F.

Again, thanks.

 

[btaylor]

Hey carlj,
The dimensions didn’t look right- I measured actual 13x17” for the outside dimensions- I don’t know why the label said otherwise. The original link to the panel on the LFPF site in broken, but I think I found it in the same company’s catalog here:
https://www.anythingdisplay.com/ind...&search=Led+light+box&description=true&page=2
I ordered the standard color temp 6500k. I am not using the filter drawer as the light source sits right on top of the carrier. I’m sure one could fabricate a slot without much trouble with some foam core and tape- there is no heat to deal with. As I think I mentioned I just use below the lens Ilford VC filters as I generally prefer not to split print when it is not necessary, but that’s just me. BTW, It looks like I ended up using Lee 212 diffusion and I needed two layers. Looking back I was getting a 15 sec exposure at f/11 for an 11x14 enlargement of an 8x10 negative.
Concerning your dichroic head and the filters: the filters are quite durable but they do get dirty. I overhauled my Chromega color head. A filter had become detached and they were very dirty. Cleaned everything up and seems to work perfectly (colors appear to reach their full range). I haven’t made the mounting bar yet to install it. The other reason I haven’t used it is the heat situation- it uses 3 500 watt bulbs and has an external fan. The LED panel makes almost no heat.

 

[carlj]

Hi btaylor,

Yes, I just went to that link and it's listed as 12x16", which is interesting. From anythingdisplay.com model it's called LED Lightbox Edge-Lit Super Thin 12x16x.79 (Product Code:LED_FLS_ss1216). The price is reasonable. Thanks, as those links from older threads usually don't work anymore. I was looking at the Chromega F top plate yesterday and while the area where the negative carrier fits into is 12x12 there are those outer half-moon shaped 'wings' that extend out to 14". However, maybe my measurements are off (I raised the head about an inch using the handle and measured from the side) -- does your panel completely cover the opening in the enlarger top plate (or whatever we should call it) above the bellows? Well, from the photos it looks like it clearly does (so a moot point, I think).

With the color head that filter drawer also holds the diffusion material (or at least mine does). According to the manual Gel filters, if one uses them in lieu of the color head controls, are supposed to go there on top of the diffusion material. How did you rig up the under-the-lens filter holder? I haven't looked that closely, does it just screw in somewhere?

Did you try to go larger than 11x14? I wonder if that makes any or much difference (presumably there's enough light)? Doubt I'd printing larger than 24x30, more like 11x14 and eventually16x20.

I haven't looked too closely inside the old head. It seems to be in decent shape but I should examine again. I did think about ordering some new foam inserts KHB while it's still available. I have some new bulbs. It's just noisy (although it's not that bad) and given the age of the unit I'd like to have an alternative available.

I'm still thinking about it and reading as much as I can find about similar projects. Fast moving target.

Thanks