70mm Film

[ww12345]

So I picked up those 70mm Hasselblad backs that were for sale here in the classifieds and wondered a few things.

Other than NOS on eBay, is anyone still producing 70mm? I assume the backs take perfed 70mm, rather than non perfed? Finally (and most importantly) - how will I load the darn things? Is there such a thing as a bulk 70mm loader? Once loaded and exposed, I assume there is a special developing tank?

Sorry for all the questions - just figured this would be the place to ask and get right answers...

 

[Mackinaw]

Kodak used to make several of their aerial films in 70mm but I'm not sure if that's still the case. Agfa does make several of their aerial films in 70mm, but, it's expensive and hard to find. And you can buy 70mm bulk loaders and processing tanks.

Jim B.

 

[jamie young]

Ilford had 70mm on their special order list this time. Don't know if enough was ordered to reach the minimum requirement. The cost was 4-6 times what I paid when I got it from kodak ten years ago.( My problem- I just have to get over what things are costing now) Keith Canham (canham camera) is doing special orders with Kodak, and you could ask him about 70mm. If you do I would likely get a few rolls. With enough other people there might be enough to get an order. there are 70mm bulk loaders out there. I have one and they work well. I don't remember whether the 70mm back needed the perforations or not. If it doesn't need it go for the non perf.

 

[TheToadMen]

I have no personal experiences with this size of film, but I know Ilford does make it at least once a year. See: (there was a url link here which no longer exists) for info on the 2013 ULF run.

Also Maco and Rollei seem to do so, see: http://www.macodirect.de/advanced_s...Csid=62970fdc51be394c148f7a333f47f9ca&x=0&y=0

I hope this helps...

 

[Roger Cole]

At the risk of being a party pooper, what exactly is the point? I get that it's wider than 120 so provides for a slightly larger negative but it doesn't seem enough larger to offset the trouble and expense to me.

 

[MattKing]

At the risk of being a party pooper, what exactly is the point? I get that it's wider than 120 so provides for a slightly larger negative but it doesn't seem enough larger to offset the trouble and expense to me.

You can use it in 116/616 folders, if you have a source for backing paper and spools.

And if you are shooting a lot (think weddings or school photos) it is really convenient.

 

[Roger Cole]

I can see both of those, but the first doesn't apply to a back for a Hassleblad. I can see the second though paying the premium for Portra 220 is a lot simpler - probably still not nearly as many shots though. How many shots do you get from a loaded 70mm back?

 

[Dr Croubie]

I too failed to see the point of 70mm, especially when the shutter opening of my 6x6 cameras is still only 54mm, having 70mm film only means you get more black around the edges (although, to be fair, that might make handling/scanning a bit easier, but it wouldn't fit my enlarger).
Only for RB/RZ67 does it make sense, and only if the film roller goes the 'other' way and you get more shots on the roll.

It only makes sense if the film is cheaper, ie there's a guy selling 100' of Ektachrome (exp 2004) for about $100 on fleabay right now. If that's all it sells for that's gotta work out to the equivalent of a few dollars a roll of 120.
But if you're buying new, like on the Ilford special order (I didn't, but i'm pretty sure there was enough to fulfill), maybe it's worth it to you to shoot old 116/616 cameras. Otherwise, if it's on a hassy, and you're just paying more for extra edges, yeah, I don't see the point.

 

[polyglot]

(there was a url link here which no longer exists) thread...

If you bought what (there was a url link here which no longer exists), they're canisters and not a back. You also need a back that is compatible with whatever medium-format camera you have, into which you insert those canisters once they're loaded. Or you can shoot 6x7 on 70mm in a 4x5 camera using a Linhof Super-Rollex back.

While the film is wider than 120, the extra width is basically all taken up with sprocket holes so the image size will be the same as the normal image size of whatever camera you're using. The point of 70mm is that you get many many shots (at least 55 of 6x7, about 70 of 6x6) on a roll, not that the image is bigger, unless you're buying unperforated film (quite hard to find) and slitting/respooling to strange formats like 616, in which case you don't need these canisters and wouldn't be asking these questions... I believe the main market for this stuff was aerial photo mapping/reconnaissance and bulk portraiture.

As to price, I shoot mostly 2405 for about 1/3 to 1/4 the cost of a typical 120 roll. And it looks/behaves just like SFX200, which it's about 1/6 the price of here. Similarly for IR - have you seen the price of IR820 since its discontinuation? Then see the price of 70mm IR400 is about 1/2 the price of plain B&W film, even if its spectral sensitivity is not quite as good as IR820.

Developing 70mm is a real hassle; you can get a Nikor tank that will take 5m of it in one batch, but they're expensive and hard to find. (there was a url link here which no longer exists) - and I do that.

My (there was a url link here which no longer exists), or you can pay about $300 for the Auden 70mm loader if you can find one.

 

[ww12345]

Yeah, I did buy that... Didn't realize they were cassettes (like 35mm cassettes - that makes more sense then...) and that they go in a film back. That's pretty convenient actually. Other than the developing, it sounds like 70mm is more like what I want: more shots between reloading...

 

[Roger Cole]

Interesting and I can see some point for some people, probably not for me.

And no I've not seen the price of IR820 but considering I stocked my freezer with it when it was discontinued - well for me anyway, something like 20 rolls each 35mm and 120 and two boxes of 4x5 - maybe I ought to take a look! Might be sitting on a gold mine.

 

[polyglot]

Yeah, I did buy that... Didn't realize they were cassettes (like 35mm cassettes - that makes more sense then...) and that they go in a film back. That's pretty convenient actually. Other than the developing, it sounds like 70mm is more like what I want: more shots between reloading...

Make sure they all have spools in them. You need a spool per canister.

What camera do you have? Backs are readily available for RB/RZ, Hasselblad (500) and Graflok (2x3 and 4x5) but I'm not sure what else, probably there are backs for the other modular system cameras (Pentax and Bronica 645s) but I haven't looked.

 

[ww12345]

I've got a Hasselblad 500C c. 1968. I believe there is at least one spool. Where would I get more if they are missing? Is it just a regular 120 spool or is it some ultra-expensive part?

 

[polyglot]

It's a different kind of spool, longer (70mm!) and with much bigger flanges in order to hold 5m of film instead of about 0.8m. They're normally in the canisters because there's no reason to separate them. Not available separately - they just come with the canisters.

Canisters in good condition with spool usually sell for $6-$15 each on eBay, they seem to come up once every week or two. And if you buy film in units of 15' to 20', it comes in a canister ready to use and you keep the canister for reloading and reuse.

You may even get lucky and score a canister or two when you buy your back (A70).

 

[jamie young]

The 70mm back took cassettes could take about 15 feet of film and you could get about 50-60 shots per cassette. one daylight load cassette had the film and an empty cassette would be the takeup spool. They made nikkor tanks and spools for development. You could get everything you needed just like 35mm or 120. It's nice to be able to shoot 60 frames without reloading. You could get film in cassettes directly from kodak, or buy 100 foot rolls and
bulk load you own with a alden bulk loader

 

[aoresteen]

I've used 70mm film since about 1978. The Hasselblad casettes *ARE* Kodak casettes. Kodak used to sell 70mm 15' pre-loaded casettes. On occasion you can find an expired roll of 15' 70mm film that the seller doesn't realize that the film has a new cassette inside. I have bought a number of them like this just to get the cassette.

I have a Mamiya 6x7 70mm back as well as a couple of Hasselblad A70 backs. You get 70 frames 6x6 with the A70 back. Back in the day when Tri-X was available in 70mm 100' rolls I would load up an A70 back with Tri-X and with my Hasselblad & 80mm lens hit the streets. Never had to change backs!

I have the Alden 70mm bulk loader, a 70mm SS reel and a homemade daylight developing tank that I made out of a daylight print processing tube. Drying the film is a pain! At frame 35 I shoot a blank frame so I can cut the film into 7.5' lengths so that it will hang in my dark room to dry.

 

[aoresteen]

70mm film came with TypeII perfferations and unperferated. 99% of the 70mm color film sold on eBay is unperfferated and will not work in a Hasselblad A70 back. The Hasselblad backs CAN be modified to use unperf film; I bought the parts 12 years ago but never have used it.

 

[patrickth]

I have the Alden 70mm bulk loader, a 70mm SS reel and a homemade daylight developing tank that I made out of a daylight print processing tube. Drying the film is a pain! At frame 35 I shoot a blank frame so I can cut the film into 7.5' lengths so that it will hang in my dark room to dry.[/QUOTE]



Do you have a pic or link to that Alden? All my searches turn up the 35mm version. It would be fantastic to see your home made developing tank too.

 

[jimgalli]

Some years ago, I was attracted and bought a bunch of stuff because of one possibility. 70mm B/W infrared was common 15 years ago. I wanted to dedicate a Mamiya Universal to infrared and even did some machine work to get a Graflex 70mm back to fit. Alas, I never got the project completed, and in the meantime, the IR film which doesn't age well at all, is probably no longer an option.

At work we had a Photosonics 14S camera that would take full frame square (14 perfs) images at 5 frames per second. It used Pentax 67 glass and is a beast to hand hold! This year I finally flushed out all of our old film cams except the 14S. Cannot bring myself to let it go. Think, 5 Nikon quality frames per second but in larger than 120 size!

 

[aoresteen]

I have the Alden 70mm bulk loader, a 70mm SS reel and a homemade daylight developing tank that I made out of a daylight print processing tube. Drying the film is a pain! At frame 35 I shoot a blank frame so I can cut the film into 7.5' lengths so that it will hang in my dark room to dry.

Do you have a pic or link to that Alden? All my searches turn up the 35mm version. It would be fantastic to see your home made developing tank too.[/QUOTE]

Sure! Here ya go:

The Alden 70mm bulk loader:





My home made 70mm tank. I bought the 70mm 15' reel first and then went looking for something to put it in. It fit in an old Omega Chromega processing tube/tanks for prints. It's about 6 7/8" inside diameter. Takes 96oz of developer



The problem with the tanks was I could not invert it for agitation or all of the developer would spill out. I had cut down a 120 16oz SS tank to fit a 127 (46mm) reel and I had saved the cut off SS ring. I simply epoxied it to the top of the Chromega tanks and a standard Kinderman tank top will keep the liquid in.

I had to cut down the tank as it was quite tall. More epoxy and silicone sealer. I made this tank around 1988 and it's still going strong.







I also mad a 70mm reel that will fit in a standard 16ox SS tank. I took a 35mm 36exp reel and cut it in half. Using a dowel, I spaced the reel ends 70mm apart and epoxied the whole thing. Did this in 1978 to process 26 exp 6x6 frames in 16oz of developer. Works well

 

[Denverdad]

Tony, your homemade 70mm reel (last picture) is a very interesting idea! Having been not so impressed with the handling of plastic reels when developing 116/616 film, I have been on a long term (and so far fruitless) quest for a SS reel. But I think that if I could convince myself that the center section of what you have there could be made rigid and stable enough, I might give a crack at building my own.

 

[patrickth]

Thanks for posting it and pics. I am trying to make a couple of 70mm devices and just trying to see how others did it. Bought a cheap step motor controller from China and repurposing a motor from an old Konica office printer. Trying to come up with a way to load 70mm bulk efficiently in dark room with some degree of confidence it will be exactly the same every time.

Going to scrounge through my Wing Lynch Model 4 parts today and see if something strikes my fancy to automate daylight developing.

 

[patrickth]

If you have a TAP Plastic outlet anywhere near you, they have clear acrylic spriral stock that would be fine for extension I would think. I don't know if they ship.

http://www.tapplastics.com/product/plastics/plastic_rods_tubes_shapes/carbon_fiber_rods/583

 

[aoresteen]

Tony, your homemade 70mm reel (last picture) is a very interesting idea! Having been not so impressed with the handling of plastic reels when developing 116/616 film, I have been on a long term (and so far fruitless) quest for a SS reel. But I think that if I could convince myself that the center section of what you have there could be made rigid and stable enough, I might give a crack at building my own.

Denverdad,

The wood dowel I used is plenty sturdy! I processed at least 70 rolls with back in the day. You could make a 90mm/122 reel easily. Or use plastic as Patrick suggests.

 

[CatLABS]

This might be relevant:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/JOBO-70mm-S...349?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4acde4694d
(fair disclosure - i have nothing to do with this listing)