6x12--What Lens Do You Like To Use?

wjlapier · Jun 29, 2020

I've finally developed a roll of Ektar I shot in my Crown Graphic with a 6x12 back and Fujinon 65mm f/8 lens. After fumbling around and a bit I managed two of six photos that look OK as the film is hanging. Got me to wondering, who shoots 6x12 and what lens or lenses do you work with? I only have the Fujinon and a Nikkor 105mm ( the Nikkor needs a lens board ). Good news is that the bellows I installed are light tight--knock on wood... Focusing was a little tough with the 65mm lens. I have a Fotoman GG finder that is pretty good, and better than the original Crown Graphic GG, but still tough to really know if I got focus right.

awty · Jun 30, 2020

Super- Angulon 90mm f/8.0 . I think that is wide enough. 105mm would be a good option.
I guess focus, F22 gives a lot of latitude.

Ian Grant · Jun 30, 2020

I shoot 6x17m I used to shoot 6x12 some years ago with a 65mm Super angulon. these days I prefer a 75mm Super angulon I did try one of my 90mm lenses but found it too long.

My 617 camera has the option for 6x12 as well but primarily I think first of the vertical aspect the 6cm and a 75mm isa good normal lensm while for the horizontal aspect 75mm is a good wide angle.

Ian

Dan Fromm · Jun 30, 2020

It really depends. When I visited Florida regularly I shot a lot in the Fakahatchee Strand and in the Big Cypress. The horizon there was very close, short lenses were very useful. In situations with a distant horizon, short lenses give images that are all foreground.

Ian Grant · Jun 30, 2020

Dan Fromm said:
It really depends. When I visited Florida regularly I shot a lot in the Fakahatchee Strand and in the Big Cypress. The horizon there was very close, short lenses were very useful. In situations with a distant horizon, short lenses give images that are all foreground.

You're right Dan, it depends on distances and the perspective you require. If you look at the work of Colin Prior who works high up in the mountains a short lens like a 65mm or 75mm wouldn't be appropriate for many of his images.

The other extreme is where you work in tight spaces where you need the widest lens possible, like the Stadium at Aphrodisias.

Or the Theatre at Miletus

But it goes back to my early comment that a 75mm/80mm is a standard lens for 6x6 and you want 6x12 (or in my case 6x17) for that wider image but with the perspective of a standard lens at typical working distances.

Ian

wjlapier · Jul 1, 2020

I need to do some more testing. My Dayi 6x12 film back ate my roll of Ilford XP2. I managed to salvage a few images to check how this lens was working. It's a Carl Zeiss Jena Tessar 105mm f/3.5 that came out of a Compur shutter ( I can't get the shutter off the lens board ) but not sure what camera it came from. It works fine with 6x12 and is pretty sharp lens.

Ian Grant · Jul 1, 2020

Your 105mm lens most probably came of a 6x9 Zeiss Ikonta as it was made in 1938. 105mm was the standard lens for the format,

Ian.

Dan Fromm · Jul 1, 2020

Check your camera's setup, the upper left corner is much softer than the lower right. Could be motion blur due to wind.

John Wiegerink · Jul 1, 2020

Dan Fromm said:
Check your camera's setup, the upper left corner is much softer than the lower right. Could be motion blur due to wind.

Dan,
if Ian is right and he usually is, the 105mm f3.5 Tessar probably isn't up to coverage into the corners especially at wide apertures. Looks to be a little vignetting in the upper corners also. Maybe the front rise and fall setting is not dead-on either? Don't know for sure, but it would not be a lens I would use for 6X12. It does a fine job on my Super Ikonta C and I have no complaints about its performance. Even if it's a front element focusing lens.

mshchem · Jul 2, 2020

90mm is what I used. I bought a Fujica G617 fixed 105mm. So much fun.

Ian Grant · Jul 2, 2020

John Wiegerink said:
Dan,
if Ian is right and he usually is, the 105mm f3.5 Tessar probably isn't up to coverage into the corners especially at wide apertures. Looks to be a little vignetting in the upper corners also. Maybe the front rise and fall setting is not dead-on either? Don't know for sure, but it would not be a lens I would use for 6X12. It does a fine job on my Super Ikonta C and I have no complaints about its performance. Even if it's a front element focusing lens.

The faster the Tessar the poorer the coverage, 105mm lenses and their coverage it's a discussion Dan and I have had before. A 105mm Tessar type design will illuminate a 5x4 focus screen at Infinity right to the corners but coverage is the useable s area where the lens is producing a sharp image.

I know from experience that a 135mm f4.5 Tessar on a 5x4 camera needs to be used at f22 to ensure edge and corner sharpness, at f16 sharpness is only jut acceptable and the edges have a touch of softness,

Ian

John Wiegerink · Jul 2, 2020

Ian Grant said:
The faster the Tessar the poorer the coverage, 105mm lenses and their coverage it's a discussion Dan and I have had before. A 105mm Tessar type design will illuminate a 5x4 focus screen at Infinity right to the corners but coverage is the useable s area where the lens is producing a sharp image.

I know from experience that a 135mm f4.5 Tessar on a 5x4 camera needs to be used at f22 to ensure edge and corner sharpness, at f16 sharpness is only jut acceptable and the edges have a touch of softness,

Ian

Thanks Ian! I haven't played around with a 135mm Tessar on 4x5/5x4 but have on 9x12cm. I found that f16/f18 for the 9x12cm to be good for general shooting like scenic shots and such. f8 and wider works fine for near-center portraits. For 4x5/5x4 I'll stick with either my little Fuji 135mm or 135mm Symmar-S. No coverage problem with either. If I were wjlapier and wanted a 135mm for 6x12cm on a Speed Graphic I'd lean toward the little Fuji since it's very small, light weight, sharp with more than enough coverage. Oh, and did I mention the Fuji is dirt cheap right now too. I think he should look into the older Super Angulon lenses since it seems the Japanese are unloading much of their medium and large format equipment on the big auction site right now. I personally don't have a 6x12cm or 6x17cm back, but if I did I would use my 75mm Schneider Super Angulon for it or maybe my 100mm Widefield Ektar. The older Schneider Angulons run fairly cheap now. JohnW

Nokton48 · Jul 2, 2020

Here's the 90mm f8 chrome Super Angulon full 4x5

Southwest Colorado 1992 by Nokton48, on Flickr

Garden of the Gods 1 by Nokton48, on Flickr

xya · Jul 2, 2020

I shoot 6x12. a 90mm angulon has too much vignetting, a 90mm super angulon however is fine. as I love wide angles, so I also have a 47mm super angulon in a cambo 470 wide. that's fantastic. full coverage and no problem.

John Wiegerink · Jul 2, 2020

Nokton48 said:
Here's the 90mm f8 chrome Super Angulon full 4x5

Southwest Colorado 1992 by Nokton48, on Flickr

Garden of the Gods 1 by Nokton48, on Flickr

Very nice and I really like the first shot.

Ian Grant · Jul 3, 2020

xya said:
I shoot 6x12. a 90mm angulon has too much vignetting, a 90mm super angulon however is fine. as I love wide angles, so I also have a 47mm super angulon in a cambo 470 wide. that's fantastic. full coverage and no problem.

I'm surprised you get vignetting with a 90mm Angulon, I use one for around 12 years with my light weight 5x4 kit and get no vignetting, however you do need care to keep inside the image circle. My main 90mm is however an f6.8 Grandagon N, and I have a 90mm f5.6 Super Angulon that was bought for my 617 camera.

Ian

awty · Jul 3, 2020

My non super 90mm angulon is soft on the corners and other places as well. The super 90mm is sharp as a pin.

Ian Grant · Jul 3, 2020

awty said:
My non super 90mm angulon is soft on the corners and other places as well. The super 90mm is sharp as a pin.

Your late countryman Dean Jones of Razzledog Polaroid conversion fame discovered that issue with the inconsistent quality of early silver barrelled 90mm Angulon lenses was due to variations of the Compur #0 shutters tube length. He corrected a few lenses that were soft by machining the shutter casings to the correct tube length. With brass Cooke portrait lenses soft focus is achieved by increasing the separation of the front cell from the rear element. A few months before he died Dean was asking people to measure their 90mm Angulons accurately to see how much variation there was.

It's quite common to have spacers on Wide angle lenses to optimise performance, there's two between the front cells and shutter on my 90mm f6.8 Grandagon N

My first 90mm Angulon wasn't sharp and I tried two more which were similar but my current one is fine, by SN 5,000,000 Schneider had eliminated the problem.

Ian

awty · Jul 3, 2020

Ian Grant said:
Your late countryman Dean Jones of Razzledog Polaroid conversion fame discovered that issue with the inconsistent quality of early silver barrelled 90mm Angulon lenses was due to variations of the Compur #0 shutters tube length. He corrected a few lenses that were soft by machining the shutter casings to the correct tube length. With brass Cooke portrait lenses soft focus is achieved by increasing the separation of the front cell from the rear element. A few months before he died Dean was asking people to measure their 90mm Angulons accurately to see how much variation there was.

It's quite common to have spacers on Wide angle lenses to optimise performance, there's two between the front cells and shutter on my 90mm f6.8 Grandagon N

My first 90mm Angulon wasn't sharp and I tried two more which were similar but my current one is fine, by SN 5,000,000 Schneider had eliminated the problem.

Ian

Thanks, never heard of razzledog, his Polaroid conversion is much neater than mine.I dont mind mines aberration of my f6.8 for somethings.

Tea Tree Bend by Paul Fitz, on Flickr

some things last a long time by Paul Fitz, on Flickr

Nokton48 · Jul 3, 2020

John Wiegerink said:
Very nice and I really like the first shot.

Thanks John. I remember it was tough to move around with so many stickers everywhere!

xya · Jul 3, 2020

Ian Grant said:
I'm surprised you get vignetting with a 90mm Angulon, I use one for around 12 years with my light weight 5x4 kit and get no vignetting, however you do need care to keep inside the image circle. My main 90mm is however an f6.8 Grandagon N, and I have a 90mm f5.6 Super Angulon that was bought for my 617 camera.

Ian

it is an early one, 2,100,000.

calais harbour

Ian Grant · Jul 4, 2020

xya said:
it is an early one, 2,100,000.

calais harbour

I have one ten years older, in a black barrel, SN 1,620,XXX so 1939 as opposed to yours from around 1948/9. The Deckel (Compur) factory had been badly damaged in WWII and in the immediate aftermath of the war Gauthier (Prontor) shutters predominated for a few years.

Ian

awty · Jul 4, 2020

Mine is No.1069860

Dan Fromm · Jul 4, 2020

xya, what aperture was your vignetted example shot at? I ask because the typical w/a lens gains coverage on stopping down for two reasons. It gains illumination far off-axis because for most w/a lenses stopping down reduces mechanical vignetting. And it gains image quality far off-axis because stopping down reduced off-axis aberrations.

Further on this point, as I calculate it a 90 degree lens should be 1.1 stops down in the 6x12's corners. I could be mistaken, but y'r example shot seems to be darker than that in the corners.

Nokton48 · Jul 4, 2020

Norma Handy Stuff 3 by Nokton48, on Flickr

I custom built from scratch this way kewl one of a kind Sinar Norma Handy which works good with 6x12 or 9x12/4x5.

This camera is not one to be taken out on dark days. Requires as fast a film as possible. Handles like a giant Leica with 21mm F3.4 Super Angulon. What we have here is the Norma extruded cone with 65 f8 Schneider helical factory installed.

Made from a hacked Norma Auxiliary standard and a lot of fun hours on the design and build process.

This is the camera they should have made; They would have sold a lot of them.

Norma Handy Stuff 2 by Nokton48, on Flickr

First test 4x5 Sinar Norma Handy 2 by Nokton48, on Flickr

This is outdated HP5 (not +) developed for a long time in straight Acufine, trying to get as much shadow speed as possible.
Could have used another stop :/

Norma Handy Stuff 1 by Nokton48, on Flickr

The silver 75mm f8 chrome Super Angulon is great too. Just find a good one.

6x12--What Lens Do You Like To Use?

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