4x5 Rangefinder with 240mm Lens?

[AJ Tedesco]

Are there any 4x5 rangefinders that would be able to handle a 240mm Nikkor-W lens. I know that is somewhat of a challenge because of both its length and weight. But I just love this lens for portraits and I have been wanting to try a 4x5 rangefinder. This would only be for tripod use, not handheld.

 

[Paul Howell]

The issue is that Rangefinders are matched to a lens, either by came or by arm. Finding a rangefinder with a arm or cam for Nikon, well maybe, but doubtful. Lindhof may be your best bet.

 

[Donald Qualls]

The Kalarts that were common on Speed Graphics (Pacemaker and Anniversary models, anyway) could be adjusted for that lens focal length, same as nearly any other. You won't get very close to your subject, but at 240 mm, you won't need to.

 

[AJ Tedesco]

After some googling, I found someone using a 240mm Sironar (which is a copal 3) on a Crown Graphic. Did not mention if the RF worked, but at least it looks like they can handle a lens of that size and FL.

 

[Ian Grant]

After some googling, I found someone using a 240mm Sironar (which is a copal 3) on a Crown Graphic. Did not mention if the RF worked, but at least it looks like they can handle a lens of that size and FL.

I don't think a cam arm was ever made for a 240mm for a Pacemaker Speed or Crown Graphic it would be too long to fold back into the body. I use a Crown and Super Graphic hand held with various lenses and it's very quick to focus on the GG screen, particularly if the back has a fresnel.

Ian

 

[AJ Tedesco]

I currently have the lens in a Shen Hao which works great. But just exploring a convenient alternative to GG focusing. Been using a a Mamiya Universal Press lately and I started getting used using an RF.

 

[Donald Qualls]

The Kalart on my Anniversary is pretty broadly adjustable with internal screws, and changing from at least 90 to 210 mm is said to not require any additional parts. I haven't fiddled with it since I set it for my 135mm Tessar.

 

[David A. Goldfarb]

I’m pretty sure you could have a 240mm lens cammed to a Linhof Technika (ideally V or Master, but a IV would work, and there are a few independent technicians who will grind cams for the Tech III), but it can be an expensive proposition.

 

[AJ Tedesco]

I’m pretty sure you could have a 240mm lens cammed to a Linhof Technika (ideally V or Master, but a IV would work, and there are a few independent technicians who will grind cams for the Tech III), but it can be an expensive proposition.

Thanks, but I probably do not want to get into any customization.

 

[shutterfinger]

There are accessory rangefinders from the day that fit into a hot shoe or use a similar bracket that mounts onto the camera or can be used handheld.

 

[David A. Goldfarb]

Thanks, but I probably do not want to get into any customization.

A non-custom option with a 240mm lens on 4x5” might not be accurate at portrait distances, which is probably a part of why it isn’t easy to find.

You could consider something like a Graflex SLR or a Gowlandflex, if you want to be able to focus up to the instant when you release the shutter.

However, if you’re using a view camera on a tripod for portrait subjects, and the subjects can remain relatively still, you can use a string, which costs virtually nothing, and it’s dead accurate even at wide apertures and close distances. Tie a string to a fixed point on the tripod and put a knot at the end that will measure a fixed distance to the subject’s head. You don’t have to focus on the point where the knot touches the subject, but you should try to keep it consistent. Use the string to position the subject’s head at the focal distance, focus, and then periodically during the shoot, you can leave the focus there, have a filmholder in the camera with the darkslide drawn ready to shoot, and periodically use the string to check the distance and make sure the subject hasn’t left the focus zone.

 

[ic-racer]

I only had a Kalart for a while, and only with 150mm lens, but even that had the adjusters near the end of the limit, which I recall was #17 out of #21 on the scale. I think you'd be best off with a large format TLR. Extra lens cells (without a shutter) can be inexpensive.

 

[AJ Tedesco]

I actually was considering a Super D RB, but really wanted to see if I can do something with this particular lens. I do not know much about large format rangefinders. If it is something easy, I might try it. I probably have too many cameras already. I just got the Nikkor recently and love it. Here is an example with a reclaimed FP100C45 negative: https://www.flickr.com/photos/ajtedesco/49892687401/in/datetaken/

 

[Bob S]

Any Linhof service center can cam couple any lens from 72mm to 360mm. For the MT and the V you only need to send them your lens. For the IV they would also need your camera.
The coupling package is the cam, cutting the cam to match the actual focal length of the lens, a pair of infinity stops and the focusing scale. Nothing custom about it.
If you just send in the lens for a MT or V you will have to install the infinity stops and focusing scale. If you send the camera with the lens then the service center will install them for you.

 

[Richard Man]

I do not know much about large format rangefinders. If it is something easy, I might try it. I probably have too many cameras already.

The short answer is no, LF rangefinder is not very common nor easy - the above mentioned cameras are the common choices and 240mm is usually considered as "kind of long" for RF. The depth of field is very narrow so the RF has to be very well adjusted.

 

[Ian Grant]

There are accessory rangefinders from the day that fit into a hot shoe or use a similar bracket that mounts onto the camera or can be used handheld.
View attachment 249009 View attachment 249010

So with a Graflex way short of a 240mm, the 6.75" is around 171.7mm, so no ragefinder coupling for a 180mm or 210mm.

Bob S mentions some Linhof's can have cams for lenses up to 360mm, but that'ts the Tele-Xenar or Tele-Artar, and shorter 240mm and 270mm Tele lenses. The 360mm Tele-Xenar has back focus (Flange Focal Distance) of 214mm.

Ian

 

[hsandler]

After some googling, I found someone using a 240mm Sironar (which is a copal 3) on a Crown Graphic. Did not mention if the RF worked, but at least it looks like they can handle a lens of that size and FL.

That might be me. I have that lens on a Crown Graphic, but I don't use the rangefinder with it. The arm for the Kalart doesn't come out nearly as far as would be required. The front standard is pulled way out to near the end of the rails. For portraits, I need maximum extension and can get about 5 feet from my subject for a half length view, as in the example here. I used theground glass, and my subject had the chair to maintain distance, and I think I used f16. I think the Sironar is somewhat telecentric too, IIRC. Because it focuses at portrait distance does not guarantee your Nikkor 240mm will. If you tell me the flange to focal plane distance of your Nikkor when focused on a light bulb about 5 feet away, I can see if the Crown would permit that.

Crown Graphic with Sironar 240mm lens by Howard Sandler, on Flickr

Nadine by Howard Sandler, on Flickr

 

[Donald Qualls]

Also worth noting that the Crown above is a Pacemaker model. Different models of Speed and Crown had different bellows length, IIRC, and in the same model, the extra depth of the focal plane shutter gives the Speed a little advantage on closest focus.

 

[Dan Fromm]

Donald, there's only Pacemaker Crown Graphic. All Crown Graphics are Pacemaker Graphics. They were made in three sizes, for 2.25" x 3.25", 3.25" x 4.25", and 4" x 5". Is that what you meant to say?

The 4x5 Crown Graphic's maximum extension is 12.5". The 4x5 Pacemaker Speed Graphic's maximum extension is 12.75". This from Graphic Graflex Photography, 10th edition. Not much of a difference.

 

[hsandler]

Donald, there's only Pacemaker Crown Graphic. All Crown Graphics are Pacemaker Graphics. They were made in three sizes, for 2.25" x 3.25", 3.25" x 4.25", and 4" x 5". Is that what you meant to say?

The 4x5 Crown Graphic's maximum extension is 12.5". The 4x5 Pacemaker Speed Graphic's maximum extension is 12.75". This from Graphic Graflex Photography, 10th edition. Not much of a difference.

This small difference is surprising! I briefly owned both a Crown and a Speed 4x5 and the difference in the depth of the box is about a full inch. So they must be attaching the back of the bellows quite close to the back of the box in the Speed; maybe some of the shutter assembly is actually outside of and forward of the bellows attachment point; I no longer own one to look at how it's put together. I had a look on graflex.org and the difference in bellows extension for the smaller 2x3 Crown vs. Speed is indeed a full inch for those ones.

 

[AJ Tedesco]

That might be me. I have that lens on a Crown Graphic, but I don't use the rangefinder with it. The arm for the Kalart doesn't come out nearly as far as would be required. The front standard is pulled way out to near the end of the rails. For portraits, I need maximum extension and can get about 5 feet from my subject for a half length view, as in the example here. I used theground glass, and my subject had the chair to maintain distance, and I think I used f16. I think the Sironar is somewhat telecentric too, IIRC. Because it focuses at portrait distance does not guarantee your Nikkor 240mm will. If you tell me the flange to focal plane distance of your Nikkor when focused on a light bulb about 5 feet away, I can see if the Crown would permit that.

Crown Graphic with Sironar 240mm lens by Howard Sandler, on Flickr

Nadine by Howard Sandler, on Flickr

Yep, it was you. Thanks for the info.

 

[shutterfinger]

This small difference is surprising! I briefly owned both a Crown and a Speed 4x5 and the difference in the depth of the box is about a full inch. So they must be attaching the back of the bellows quite close to the back of the box in the Speed; maybe some of the shutter assembly is actually outside of and forward of the bellows attachment point; I no longer own one to look at how it's put together.

The Crown and Speed use the same bellows in 4x5 format. The film plane is at the rear of the camera body. The Speed has a deeper body due to the focal plane shutter. The focal plane shutter curtain rollers are about 3/4 inch in diameter with no more than 1/8 inch clearance between the roller and bellows attach point of the body.

A handheld rangefinder will only tell you the distance to the subject so a scale on the camera will be needed to use one.
Rangefinders are calibrated at infinity and closer distances are determined by the lens focusing characteristics. Kalart rangefinders use one arm for 2x3 format, one for 3x4 format, and one for 4x5 format. If the 240mm lens focuses closer distances about the same amount of forward travel as a 165mm or shorter lens then a spacer (actuator) connected to the rails so that the lens when at infinity holds the rangefinder arm at its near fully retracted position where it is set for infinity then it can be calibrated for the 240mm lens. On a monorail view camera the rangefinder will need to be mounted on the rear standard and an actuator on the front with a rod or similar from the front standard to the rangefinder actuator arm. The rangefinder would not be useful for focusing with movements.

 

[Ian Grant]

Also worth noting that the Crown above is a Pacemaker model. Different models of Speed and Crown had different bellows length, IIRC, and in the same model, the extra depth of the focal plane shutter gives the Speed a little advantage on closest focus.

Actually the bellows extension is nominally the same on all 5x4 Speed Graphics as well as the Crown and Super Graphic, they are all double extension, so 300mm/12" approx. It's possible the pre-Anniversary track bed extends a few millimetres less than the Anniversary and Pacemaker models (which have identical track beds) due the focussing pinion being set back slightly more, but the difference would be inconsequential.

You need to go to a Linhof Technika, MPP Micro Technical, or Japanese equivalent for triple extension.

Ian

 

[halfaman]

I have a 4x5'' Busch Pressman D and I tried to use a Wollensak 137 f/4.7 with the couple rangefinder at f/5.6. The depth of field was so narrow, even a infinity, that my conclusion was that RF are useless for practical use in large format cameras unless the diaphragm is step down a lot (f/16 or so).

 

[Donald Qualls]

RF are useless for practical use in large format cameras unless the diaphragm is step down a lot (f/16 or so).

That was the way everyone shot back in the day. Until 35mm ruled the roost, f/11 or f/16 were the basic aperture settings. Royal X Pan was made for this -- native speed (before the ASA change) of 1600 (that's equivalent to Delta 3200 or Tmax P3200), and in 4x5, grain wasn't a big deal. HIE was ASA 800 (after the change) without the IR filter (Weegee used this film a lot).

Fast film, and a slow shutter (again, a little motion blur wasn't a major issue if you were contact printing for a single column photo) -- plus, press cameras were built to be hand held steadily and had no mirror (even the focal plane shutter in a Speed Graphic doesn't impart a lot of movement).

I've hand held my Speed Graphic with a focal plane exposure of 1/20, pointed in a somewhat awkward direction, with no discernible motion blur -- focused with the RF on a 135mm lens. It can be done, and it was done on a regular basis.