4x5 Camera: Where to start?

[Tyler Fukuda]

My point is that view cameras, of whatever type and brand, are basically a bellows with a front and a rear for attaching stuff. Not complicated at all. That's one reason you can find some nice used ones for under $100. They are nothing like an SLR or rangefinder camera. It's the stuff you attach to it that gets costlier, and you need to consider that. And then you have to figure out how you are going to handle the film once it's exposed. If you want to take lots of pictures, and I assume you do, you have to figure out how that is going to be handled -- and that's expensive too -- not matter how you handle it. Are you ready to spend $5-25 for each picture you take?

I'm all in favor of your tackling large format. I'm just trying to inform you about what lies ahead. Or do you generally climb mountains without asking about the condition of the trail?

That’s exactly why I came to this forum in the first place—To ask question and open the space up to this medium, especially from well informed folks. I wouldn’t say that answers your question about climbing the mountain from post #1. I appreciate you for enlightening me about what to expect from the medium and I never assume it’s going to be easy.

 

[GregY]

I have a big soft spot for field cameras. My Deardorff 5x7 was from 1934 & still worked like a charm. Chamonix makes some very nice light field cameras too.

 

[Craig]

I really like the Toyo 45CF. It's a carbon fibre camera, and what is nice is that is can be folded up with a standard (150mm) lens attached and the lens is protected within the hard shell. It makes using and putting away the camera fast and easy.

It's quite light too, and has most movements. I've never felt limited by it's movements.

 

[Huub]

Over on the Large Format Photography forum there is a wealth of info on almost all aspects of the trade: https://www.largeformatphotography.info/ Well worth reading.

 

[John Wiegerink]

I have both a press camera and view camera. I usually take both, the Crown for hiking and the view when shooting off the road but close to the SUV. My view is very light but not compact, it is a Brand 17 View, made in L.A after WWII from melted down aluminum from surplus aircraft. It has good movements and a rotating back, I don't think one replaces the other.

View attachment 414971

I had a Brand 17 for a short while until I upgraded to a Graphic View II. I think the "17" in brand stood for melted down B-17????

 

[xkaes]

Chamonix makes some very nice light field cameras too.

And too pricey for many of us poor slobs.

 

[xkaes]

That’s exactly why I came to this forum in the first place

I understand. I just don't want you to think that I'm trying to talk you out of a 4x5 camera because I'm not suggesting a particular one for you -- as many have done. It's pretty typical for FORUM members -- NOT just this FORUM -- to answer your type of question with a "This is what I use" type of response. That really doesn't help you out. Before I bought my first 4x5 I did a LOT of research as to what I needed in a 4x5 and what was available -- and it paid off. How you handle it is completely up to you, but some people love to spend other people's money.

 

[Paul Howell]

I had a Brand 17 for a short while until I upgraded to a Graphic View II. I think the "17" in brand stood for melted down B-17????

It is a very odd camera, the 17 was for 17 inches the length of the bellows, there are extension for the rails that allow for use of long lens. It has pretty good movements. Considering that it is now 76 years old, it has held up.

 

[John Wiegerink]

It is a very odd camera, the 17 was for 17 inches the length of the bellows, there are extension for the rails that allow for use of long lens. It has pretty good movements. Considering that it is now 76 years old, it has held up.

Yes, I was just making fun of the old B17 scrap yard thing. Mine was certainly built will, but a little bulky. With a normal monorail 4X5 it could be broken down to just a rail and the standards and bellows if needed. The dual rails on the brand made it sturdy, but less compact.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Welcome to Photrio!

I recommend a 4"x5" press camera so that the camera can be used handheld or on a tripod. Consider the Speed Graphic and the Crown Graphic.

 

[MTGseattle]

If the OP has a way they can borrow or rent a 4x5 camera or even meet a friend/acquaintance who has one, that would be ideal. my introduction to 4x5 occurred in college where I had access to a Tachihara field camera and a big Cambo model down in the studio. We were allowed to "borrow" the Cambo as well, but when I saw the case it would be schlepped around in, I opted for the Tachihara.

Back then I also had access to a relatively local camera shop that always had Graflex stuff in stock. (Cole's cameras in Fergus Falls, MN sadly gone now I think) I was able to get a beat-up Speed Graphic (no focal curtain), with a lens (127mm) and 3 film holders all for $75.

I guess we have the somewhat classic split in this thread;

camp A=Start simple with a somewhat inexpensive press camera then upgrade as needed.

Camp B= Start with the fullest featured camera you can afford and grow into it.

 

[Paul Howell]

Yes, I was just making fun of the old B17 scrap yard thing. Mine was certainly built will, but a little bulky. With a normal monorail 4X5 it could be broken down to just a rail and the standards and bellows if needed. The dual rails on the brand made it sturdy, but less compact.

When out shooting I keep mine in large cooler in the back of my SUV, the handle helps lug it around.

 

[John Wiegerink]

Another very good candidate is the Busch Pressman or Sears Tower 4X5. The Tower 4X5 was my only 4X5 for many years, after I sold the Graphic View II, I liked it better than the Speed Graphic. Built very well, nice rangefinder and handle all my needs in 4X5 until I bought a Toyo field camera. The Tower 4X5 was a dream with the 135mm Symmar-S mounted on it and synced with the rangefinder. It took smaller lens boards than the Graphic cameras, but if you use lenses like the 203mm f7.7 Ektar or Fuji's smaller size lenses you're fine. They can be fairly cheap and to me, are a bargain.

 

[xkaes]

I guess we have the somewhat classic split in this thread;

camp A=Start simple with a somewhat inexpensive press camera then upgrade as needed.

Camp B= Start with the fullest featured camera you can afford and grow into it.

Camp C= Start with researching cameras first so you'll know what features you want/need -- so you can avoid needing to upgrade, or paying for features you'll never need.

 

[Craig]

Camp C= Do you research first so you'll know what features you need, so you can avoid needing to upgrade or paying for features you'll never need.

In theory, I agree. Although it can be hard to know what you need and what you don't until after you have used a view camera for a while.

I was lucky that when I started having an interest in LF, I could rent one from the local university quite cheaply. I was a good introduction to LF and to see if it was something I even wanted to own.

 

[xkaes]

Renting qualifies as "research" in my book. -- AKA, testing. That's what researchers do!

 

[Arthurwg]

Anyway, I wouldn't sink a ton of money into 4x5 until you're sure it's the way you want to go. In the good old days Quick Loads, Readyloads and Type 55 Polaroids made 4x5 much easier and more convenient. These days it's a lot more work IMHO.

 

[Pioneer]

Just buy one that has the features you need and then use the living daylights out of it. Try your very best to wear it out or break it. Along the way you will learn how to use it. As you learn how to use it you will figure out if you need something different.

 

[EdFromNYC]

Hey there! -- New to this forum so Hello to everyone!

I apologize in advance if this is a tired question, but i'm looking to delve into the 4x5 system: Mostly to be used for environmental portraiture and the occasional landscape.

I need something that isn't insanely expensive (I know this is relative), but very reliable --Think Nikon F3, Canon F1.

I had my eye on a Cambo SC as it looks fairly straight forward and can be found a decent prices.

Would love to know what everyone has to say or advise. Thank you!

I agree also! A 4x5 Crown Graphic camera is cheap, quite portable and even hand-holdable. Remember Weegee and other press photogs used it everyday as their workhorse! Among other things, there are limited front movements for architecture and you can use a roll film back too.

Back in the day when I had a custom photolab in NYC's "Photo District" I also used it as a copy camera.

More info here:

Crown Graphic 4x5 as a Field Camera

Besides my 4x5 Toyo, I have 2 Crown Graphics!

Be well! EdFrom NYC

 

[TheFlyingCamera]

I'll approach this from a slightly different tack - do you know what kind of pictures you want to take with the camera? Are you looking to do studio still life, landscape, architecture, portrait, photojournalistic work? Each of those types of photography will point you down a different track for the best camera for the job. Instead of telling you to get one particular camera based on price, but may well be completely wrong for the kinds of photos you want to take, I'd suggest figuring out what you want to do and then finding the best tool. If you wanted to do DIY home repair, I wouldn't tell you to start out with a hand saw because it has no moving parts and is therefore easy to use. What if you want to drill holes, or drive screws? Or what if you want to do electrical installation?

I think one of the frustrations that drives some people away from large format is following the advice of "just start with a Speed/Crown Graphic". Sure, they're cheap, but they were tools built for a very specific purpose (photojournalism) and as such have some significant limitations - limited bellows draw, limited range of movements, hard to use wide-angle lenses, etc. They're great if you don't need those things - and perhaps you don't, since you already shoot with a Leica. But if you want to do studio portraiture, the Graphic sisters won't cut it for head-and-shoulders portraits - they can't handle longer lenses or fast lenses (lens board is too small).

If you want to do architecture or still life, you'll want a monorail camera, ideally one that is modular/extensible, with accessory bellows for wide angle or close focus.

If you want to do landscape, you could get by with a Speed/Crown Graphic, but you should probably look at a proper field camera that can focus lenses wider than a 90mm to infinity (ideally without a recessed lens board - recessed lens boards are sometimes a necessary evil, but they're always an evil and are better avoided if possible).

So let us know what problem you want this camera to solve and we can point you to the more appropriate tool. This is not to say that what others have already observed isn't true - your first large format camera really is rarely your last one (unless you get out of large format), but it would be a lot better to have the reason for changing be because your needs have evolved rather than out of frustration with the tool on a fundamental level.

 

[abruzzi]

The OP wrote environmental portraiture and landscape, but I expect there is a still a lot of variability in how people might approach those forms of photography. Did reccomendations gravitate to the Graphics because "portraiture" means handheld, which the Graphics excel at?
I don't take any kind of portraits so maybe I misunderstand that genre but I'd still be using a tripod and maybe even movements, depending on the "environmental" part of the photo. Honestly, I have no interest shooting 4x5 handheld. Medium format cameras, lenses, and film are so good, and the handling of MF cameras is far better handheld than any 4x5 will ever be. So--environmental portraits--I'd still be using a ground glass to compose and focus if using a 4x5, so the Graphics don't provide any meaningful benefit to how I would approach that type of photography.

 

[GregY]

The OP wrote environmental portraiture and landscape, but I expect there is a still a lot of variability in how people might approach those forms of photography. Did reccomendations gravitate to the Graphics because "portraiture" means handheld, which the Graphics excel at?
I don't take any kind of portraits so maybe I misunderstand that genre but I'd still be using a tripod and maybe even movements, depending on the "environmental" part of the photo. Honestly, I have no interest shooting 4x5 handheld. Medium format cameras, lenses, and film are so good, and the handling of MF cameras is far better handheld than any 4x5 will ever be. So--environmental portraits--I'd still be using a ground glass to compose and focus if using a 4x5, so the Graphics don't provide any meaningful benefit to how I would approach that type of photography.

Agreed.... if i am using 4x5 or 5x7 for a portrait...(or anything for that matter) it's on a tripod. Even portraits with a Rolleiflex ....are taken with the camera on a tripod.

 

[Paul Howell]

To shoot vertical while on a tripod a Crown or Speed needs to unbuckle the hand strap to access the second tripod mount. The Graphic View the back is unpinned and rotated. Both are a bit more of hassle than using a rotating back. And when using a Crown or View if the ground is uneven the user needs to adjust the tripod legs to level the camera, much easier with a camera with a rotating back.

 

[xkaes]

Just buy one that has the features you need and then use the living daylights out of it. Try your very best to wear it out or break it. Along the way you will learn how to use it. As you learn how to use it you will figure out if you need something different.

That's the "Pioneer Spirit" for sure -- but most of the time the grub stake didn't pan out, and they ended up flat footed and flat broke, by cracky!

 

[eli griggs]

Speed Graphic or Crown Graphic and old press lenses.