4x5 Camera: Where to start?

[Tyler Fukuda]

There are lots of inexpensive studio and field 4x5 cameras. You'll find that the camera is usually the least expensive part of "the deal" -- unless you just want to use one old lens, and will only make contact prints.

I think there is a middle ground to be had here. Photography certainly isn't a cheap hobby (or profession) by any means, especially film. There will always be a learning curve but i'm interested in taking the leap and trying a new medium.

Are there some variables I should expect since i'm coming into this with fresh eyes? Maybe some friendly advice you'd like to give?

 

[garpet]

I actually JUST picked up a horseman 45L today. I was originally going to go with a calumet, but decided that since I didn't want to ever buy another camera again, I might as well get something with some niceties

 

[abruzzi]

A lot of reccomendations to start with a Graphic press camera of some kind. I always avoided them because of very restricted movements. If I was going into LF, I wanted to make sure I understood and had opportunity to use movements because that would have been a big determinant for whether the format suited me, and the Graphics are pretty limited in that respect. Am I missing something?

Few seem to agree with me but I'll make my usual plug for a monorail of some kind--I started with a wood field camera, moved to a metal technical camera, but didn't really enjoy or start to feel comfortable with the view camera setup until I got a monorail. In my case a Linhof Technikardan, but there are a lot of good monorails that are also inexpensive. They aren't the best lightweight field cameras, but some are packable. A Sinar F can be had for $200, and is easy to pack and setup in the field, and is almost infinitely configurable and expandable given the breadth of the Sinar system.

 

[btaylor]

I think a big determinant is going to be what you want to do with this 4x5. A Graflex Speed or Crown will pretty much do what your 35mm camera will do, but slower, more deliberate, with greater difficulty and cost. And you’ll have a huge negative with all the inherent qualities that go with it. If you want to learn, use, and experiment with rise, tilts, swings I would suggest you get a 4x5 field or monorail camera which will also allow you to use more different focal length lenses.
I have a Super Speed Graphic that I enjoy using, often handheld. It’s fast and easy to use. If I’m shooting architecture, tabletop or want to use longer or wider lenses a monorail is my choice.
As many say over at LFPF, your first large format camera probably won’t be the one you end up with. Enjoy the ride.

 

[MARTIE]

There is some great advice. The best being, "Get yourself well informed." To help, I find the B&H downloadable pdfs indispensable.Thank you B&H!

While by no means a comprehensive bible of all LF cameras ever built by every brand, I think it does shed some light on what was the last remaining pinnacle of LF camera design and manufacture. This in turn, could lead to a narrowing of choices and comparisons or a start to futher investigate older or alternative makes and models.

Section 3a LF field cameras

https://static.bhphotovideo.com/FrameWork/Product_Resources/SourceBookProPhoto/Section03aLgFormatField.pdf

Section 3b LF view cameras

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/FrameWork/Product_Resources/SourceBookProPhoto/Section03bLgFormatView.pdf

Section 4 LF lenses

https://static.bhphotovideo.com/FrameWork/Product_Resources/SourceBookProPhoto/Section04LgFormatLenses.pdf

Complete source book!

https://static.bhphotovideo.com/FrameWork/Product_Resources/SourceBookProPhoto/Pro-Photo-SourceBook.pdf

 

[FriedLouisStudio]

Another vote for the Graphic View. These are crazy underrated these days, but it's an American art deco classic that was really built to last. My parents used our Graphic View II daily for fifty years in our commercial studio. (We had a Crown Graphic too, but we mostly just carried that on location jobs as a backup camera.)

 

[campy51]

Here is where I would start. Hopefully the rangefinder is calibrated so you can use it as a point and shoot.

» Graflex Crown Graphic 4X5 Film Large Format Camera with 135mm F4.7 Lens

www.natcam.com

 

[Paul Howell]

I saw one at Sammy on ebay for under $250 without a lens. Add a Kodak Ektar 150, not the commercial version for landscapes and a 180 to 219 for portraitures along with lens hoods a few filters and meter and you are good to go.

 

[Steve Goldstein]

There is some great advice. The best being, "Get yourself well informed." To help, I find the B&H downloadable pdfs indispensable.Thank you B&H!

While by no means a comprehensive bible of all LF cameras ever built by every brand, I think it does shed some light on what was the last remaining pinnacle of LF camera design and manufacture. This in turn, could lead to a narrowing of choices and comparisons or a start to futher investigate older or alternative makes and models.

Section 3a LF field cameras

https://static.bhphotovideo.com/FrameWork/Product_Resources/SourceBookProPhoto/Section03aLgFormatField.pdf

Section 3b LF view cameras

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/FrameWork/Product_Resources/SourceBookProPhoto/Section03bLgFormatView.pdf

Section 4 LF lenses

https://static.bhphotovideo.com/FrameWork/Product_Resources/SourceBookProPhoto/Section04LgFormatLenses.pdf

Complete source book!

https://static.bhphotovideo.com/FrameWork/Product_Resources/SourceBookProPhoto/Section03aLgFormatField.pdf

I think this last URL is incorrect - it points to Section 3a, not the complete source book. I haven't been able to figure out the correct incantation to get the full book.

 

[Paul Howell]

If OP primary use is for landscapes I would recommend a speed or crown, I have had my speed since 1966 and my crown sometime in the early 70s. Great for hiking, mono-pod, somewhat wide 135mm coupled to the rangefinder no need to use the ground glass and lug a tripod around. The Graphic view comes into it's own with portraiture's, still life's, city scrapes when movement is important. The one draw back with a Graphic View is not having a roating back, the back can be move from horizonal to vertical, a roating back is just easier to use.

 

[MARTIE]

I think this last URL is incorrect - it points to Section 3a, not the complete source book. I haven't been able to figure out the correct incantation to get the full book.

My apologies.
Link to b&h complete photo source book.

https://static.bhphotovideo.com/FrameWork/Product_Resources/SourceBookProPhoto/Pro-Photo-SourceBook.pdf

I've edited the original post as well, now. Thanks for the heads-up.

 

[Klaus Mähring]

The Graflex Crown Graphic is definately a great (and cheap!) starting point, esp. if you want to take it out into the fields. It's light, and it folds nicely.
One thing to be aware of: The Graflex needs a rather unusual lens board....
One rule of thumb-ish: Spend more on the lens than on the camera (that is, if you are not going for an old-ish look with a cheap lens).

 

[blee1996]

OP clearly states that his main interest is "environmental portraits" (plus occasional landscape), thus Graflex Speed Graphics will be a good starting point. That's how I started as well. Quite fast to setup, can accommodate interesting lenses (e.g. Aero Ektar or projection lenses), and pretty compact for transportation. Very rugged and can take a lot of heavy use. The limitation of movement is not an issue with environmental portraits.

 

[Pioneer]

The Crown Graphic is a nice option. It will serve you well for many years.

If the restricted movements begin to interfere with what you want to do then consider Intrepid. They have been building some very nice wooden field cameras for years. I use mine regularly and can use many of my Graflex accessories with it.

 

[Tyler Fukuda]

OP clearly states that his main interest is "environmental portraits" (plus occasional landscape), thus Graflex Speed Graphics will be a good starting point. That's how I started as well. Quite fast to setup, can accommodate interesting lenses (e.g. Aero Ektar or projection lenses), and pretty compact for transportation. Very rugged and can take a lot of heavy use. The limitation of movement is not an issue with environmental portraits.

Correct, Environmental Portraiture will be the primary use for what i'd like to do with large format -- at least to start. Occasional landscape work would be done depending on location but mostly if i'm traveling in a new city or country.

I understand these systems aren't the easiest to travel with and I usually leave my SLR behind since my rangefinder is typically a lot smaller and light to carry, but i'm opening up myself to new possibilities with LF, so sacrifice must be made.

 

[abruzzi]

I carry a 4x5 monorail in my motorcycle panniers. Pick the right camera, and its managable.

 

[Tyler Fukuda]

Overall view is to go with a Crown Graphic to start. My friend has one that he is selling at a decent price so I will likely start there and see how that is to work with.

Then the rabbit hole of developing follows--A fun road to go down!

 

[Tyler Fukuda]

I carry a 4x5 monorail in my motorcycle panniers. Pick the right camera, and its managable.

That's amazing. Which one?

 

[MTGseattle]

There is a lot of good advice in the previous replies.
Think about how you will get the camera to your shooting locations and what you imagine your setup routine will be like. While I agree that some of the older cameras that are a bit more studio oriented can certainly be used out and about, they require a bigger case, are heavier and in some cases will take a bit more time to set up (vs a press type camera) due to the available movements.

based upon your brief statement of intent, I too would recommend a Graflex Crown or Speed Graphic, or possibly a metal field camera like a Toyo A, Linhof Technika, Wista, Horseman, Ritreck,
Look at what's out there, I firmly believe the Wista cameras are undervalued compared to some of the others when features/price are compared, but they will cost more than a Graflex for sure.

 

[abruzzi]

That's amazing. Which one?

a Toho FC-45A. There aren't many of them out there. Here was a Japanese auction:

東邦機械 FC-45A 大判カメラ /69399 - Yahoo!オークション

商品に興味を持っていただきありがとうございます。 下記をお読み頂きご入札下さい。 【商品名】 ☆☆東邦機械 FC-45A 大判カメラ /69399 【商品状態】中古品の為、使用感、多少のスレ汚れは御座いますことをご理解ください。気にされる方や神経質

auctions.yahoo.co.jp

And a picture assembled:

 

[Paul Howell]

That's amazing. Which one?

Not to take over the post but Peter Gowland made several large format TLR up to 8X10, he also made a very small view camera, they do show up on Ebay but are expensive.

GOWLANDFLEX CAMERAS | petergowland

www.petergowland.com

 

[xkaes]

Are there some variables I should expect since i'm coming into this with fresh eyes? Maybe some friendly advice you'd like to give?

My point is that view cameras, of whatever type and brand, are basically a bellows with a front and a rear for attaching stuff. Not complicated at all. That's one reason you can find some nice used ones for under $100. They are nothing like an SLR or rangefinder camera. It's the stuff you attach to it that gets costlier, and you need to consider that. And then you have to figure out how you are going to handle the film once it's exposed. If you want to take lots of pictures, and I assume you do, you have to figure out how that is going to be handled -- and that's expensive too -- not matter how you handle it. Are you ready to spend $5-25 for each picture you take?

I'm all in favor of your tackling large format. I'm just trying to inform you about what lies ahead. Or do you generally climb mountains without asking about the condition of the trail?

 

[xkaes]

A lot of reccomendations to start with a Graphic press camera of some kind. I always avoided them because of very restricted movements. If I was going into LF, I wanted to make sure I understood and had opportunity to use movements because that would have been a big determinant for whether the format suited me, and the Graphics are pretty limited in that respect. Am I missing something?

You're not missing anything. They might be great for some people, but not only are they restricted in movements. they are limited when using short and long lenses. And they are heavy considering what they do. If you want a large format rangefinder-type camera, they're great, but I'm not a WEEGEE-type photographer.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weegee

 

[Paul Howell]

I have both a press camera and view camera. I usually take both, the Crown for hiking and the view when shooting off the road but close to the SUV. My view is very light but not compact, it is a Brand 17 View, made in L.A after WWII from melted down aluminum from surplus aircraft. It has good movements and a rotating back, I don't think one replaces the other.

 

[Logical1]

I am getting back to 4x5 after a 50 year hiatus. The Speed and Crown Graphics are a good first choice. Of more concern is to be certain that the shutter on your lens functions properly. The bodies are pretty straight forward, but the rangefinders on the Speed and Crown are generally optimized for the lens supplied. Check all speeds to see that they are functioning properly, or at least the ones you will possibly be using. I picked up a Speed Graphic and then a Linhof Technika V. Both cameras weigh about the same, but the Linhof allows the use of other lenses rangefinder coupled. Can you rent, or borrow one to see what you like or dislike about them?
Enjoy.

Mark J.