4-aminophenol+p-phenylenediamine color reveloper

mohmad khatab · Jul 24, 2022

LeoniD said:
I'd use Rodinal, 1+50, 9min, 20C. It will produce small amount of dye too, and we need everything
The films you've listed will work, yes.
This process will produce a negative
Well, the negatives will not be "normal" because the color rendition will be very different from standard C41. Thebcolor palette can be seen in the first post.
Yes, you need to re-expose the film, but several seconds under the sunlight will be more than enough.
You will have to use separate bleach and fix.
I don't know what "the great copper bleach is", but if it is a rehal bleach, it should work. Ferric sodium/ammonium edta bleach should work too.

1. BW dev. Rodinal 1+50 9min. 20°C
2. Fix (must be non-hardening, time will depend on what you use)
3. Bleach (time will depend in what you use)
4. Re-exposure
5. Color dev 5min. 20°C
Repeat steps 3 through 5 for 4 times, then
6. Bleach
7. Fix
Blix can be used instead of steps 6 and 7.
8. Base solution(sodium carbonate, for example, or weak NaOH ) for 5 min at 20°C
Then wash with clean water and dry.

Now it has become quite clear...
Yes, yes, now I fully understand the story.
Mr. Rudy told me about this process before, and it was mainly intended to increase the density when using expired films.
- But now you want to use this process to introduce (PPD) and (4-Aminophenol)
Yes, I think that these experiences will be useful, God willing.
OK brother .
I will carry out these experiments and I will let you know the results within two days at the most, God willing.

Note: Copper bleach is primitive bleach that consists of copper sulfate and sodium chloride.
The word great is just an adjective added to the description and not a complementary word to the noun

Donald Qualls · Jul 25, 2022

LeoniD said:
You will not need ammonia for the negative process. As I've said, any rehal bleach will work

If you want to be able to loop develop a positive dye image, you need some way to bleach the developed silver after first developer, and copper sulfate/ammonia may be the only process that won't damage the dye couplers.

LeoniD · Jul 25, 2022

Donald Qualls said:
If you want to be able to loop develop a positive dye image, you need some way to bleach the developed silver after first developer, and copper sulfate/ammonia may be the only process that won't damage the dye couplers.

Yes, in case of reversal. However, there I described the negative process

Donald Qualls · Jul 25, 2022

LeoniD said:
there I described the negative process

But then why would you use expensive E-6 film? Or is this aimed at ECN-2?

LeoniD · Jul 25, 2022

Donald Qualls said:
But then why would you use expensive E-6 film? Or is this aimed at ECN-2?

Not just ecn-2, any color negative. Old agfacolor/sovcolor would probably work even better

Donald Qualls · Jul 25, 2022

LeoniD said:
Old agfacolor/sovcolor would probably work even better

Didn't those use different dye couplers and developing agents from C-22/C-41 etc.? I'd gotten the impression that Agfacolor wasn't compatible with anything else (but don't know anything about Sovcolor).

LeoniD · Jul 25, 2022

Donald Qualls said:
Didn't those use different dye couplers and developing agents from C-22/C-41 etc.? I'd gotten the impression that Agfacolor wasn't compatible with anything else (but don't know anything about Sovcolor).

We aren't using CD-4 here, are we? Agfa/sovcolor used phenylenediamine derivatives, while CD-3 and 4 are toluenediamine derivatives, so it is quite possible that in this chemistry we have the same effect that we'd get after developing in CD-1, a bathochromic shift.

Murray Kelly · Jul 26, 2022

I used PPD in the late 1950s for Agfacolor. Even managed a print, same developing agent. No mask in those days. Don't ask for details -it has been too long.

LeoniD · Oct 27, 2022

Sooo, I continued this, but with raw chemicals. First of all, mohmad khatab, I'm really sorry. the process I thought would work, is incorrect. I tried it myself, and Rodinal, even with tons of sulfite, produces lots of dye, and those dyes are incorrect. Red becomes green, blue becomes magenta and green becomes black/barely blue, but it seems to be non-linear (pic.1- Kodak vision 3 500t@500, rodinal 1+25, 8:30, 38C).
The proper process needs a regular bw developer as first dev (time needs to be adjusted for each recipe, but it`s better to use them at 38C). Then fix, bleach, and the color dev is 3.9g/l of PPD, 0.3g/l of Aminophenol (but I think it would be better to reduce that even more, to 0.15-0.2g/l). Ph must be lower than the regular color developer, ~9-9,5. Temperature-20C, 10min or longer, and potassium bromide may be added to further slow down developing of silver, so color developing agent has time to condense into dye. Oh, and aminophenol is a real PITA to dissolve at that Ph. My film suffered a major case of acne even tho visually everything was completely dissolved (pic2- palette close to my best result with hair dye). I wish I could show a picture without defects, but I've simply ran out of film. The Dmax is surprisingly good even after one pass, so this process should work for slides too, even without the chloride+ammonia reversal.
Interestingly, aminophenol dyes in NaOH seem to have the right colors and much more density, but the moment you rinse the film- it's all back to where it started.

LeoniD · Oct 27, 2022

Murray Kelly said:
I used PPD in the late 1950s for Agfacolor. Even managed a print, same developing agent. No mask in those days. Don't ask for details -it has been too long.

Sorry, I didn't see your reply. Do you have the negatives or the print? I'm really interested how results of this process keep

Donald Qualls · Oct 27, 2022

LeoniD said:
aminophenol dyes in NaOH seem to have the right colors and much more density, but the moment you rinse the film- it's all back to where it started.

This might suggest that a formalin stabilizer is needed.

LeoniD · Oct 27, 2022

After NaOH bath, or without it?

Donald Qualls · Oct 28, 2022

Formalin stabilizer would be the last thing before hanging the film to dry. I suppose it could be applied any time after the color developer, but in C-22, pre-2000 C-41, E-4 and E-6 it's always been the last bath.

LeoniD · Oct 28, 2022

Donald Qualls said:
Formalin stabilizer would be the last thing before hanging the film to dry. I suppose it could be applied any time after the color developer, but in C-22, pre-2000 C-41, E-4 and E-6 it's always been the last bath.

I know that, but I thought stab only react ls with leftover dye couplers, and in this case the dye itself reacts to Ph

Donald Qualls · Oct 28, 2022

Aaah. That probably won't help, then.

Vovanuhc · Aug 8, 2023

Привет всем. Тема ещё актуальна?

lamerko · Aug 8, 2023

Interesting thread... regarding the use of hair dye - is there any methodology for the dissolution? If alcohol is used for the dissolution and subsequent filtration - will this have any positive effect?

LeoniD · Aug 8, 2023

lamerko said:
Interesting thread... regarding the use of hair dye - is there any methodology for the dissolution? If alcohol is used for the dissolution and subsequent filtration - will this have any positive effect?

Maybe it will separate the ppd from the viscous stuff, but ppd oxidises very fast

Vovanuhc · Aug 9, 2023

Лимонная кислота хорошо растворяет PPD

Vovanuhc · Aug 13, 2023

LeoniD said:
Well, I didn't use the raw components and the manufacturer doesn't disclose how much of PPD there is in 45ml of hair dye, but I'd start with 2g of PPD and 1g of 4-aminophenol, per 330ml of the developer. No idea what the Ph should be in this case, so I'd add potassium carbonate until Ph is somewhere around 9. IIRC, PE mentioned that sodium sulfite in low concentrations will help with dye formation by removing the excess oxidised color developing agent, so I'd add ~0.2-0.3g, again, per 330ml.
So the whole process would go like this

1) First dev.: Rodinal 1+50 or equivalent, approximately 9min at 20C.
2) Fix(non-hardening)
3) Bleach. Not blix and without formaldehyde or other chemicals that destroy the dye couplers. I used potassium ferricyanide+potassium bromide and a phosphate buffer, but ferric sodium or ammonium EDTA bleach will probably work fine too.
4) Re-exposure
5) Color dev
Repeat steps 3 through 5 until satisfactory amount of dye is formed. Then bleach and fix. AFAIK, the dyes formed by 4-aminophenol are Ph-sensitive, so I'd use a neutral fix and wash the film in sodium carbonate/bicarbonate/weak NaOH solution before the final wash.

That is where I would start if I tried to make this developer from the raw chemicals, but it 100% will need adjustments, maybe pretty major.

They sent me this option, only the stages are different, I need to try both your option and this one, which is on the link

4-aminophenol+p-phenylenediamine color reveloper

Attachments

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency