2013 ULF Manufacture From ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology Limited

oleg-photo · May 13, 2013

StoneNYC said:
If so I'm sorry if you already said that and I missed it but I wanted to know how much before I decide how many to order haha.

Thanks.

~Stone | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk

I have just found out the cost of 70mm perforated ( http://www.ag-photographic.co.uk/hp5-70mm-x-50ft-double-perforated-3470-p.asp ). Well... I am affraid, I am to stick with out-of-date Kodak... Or, I should buy fresh HP-5 in 120 rolls as it would be almost 3 times cheaper! In 2009 Martin Reed mentioned completely different range of prices...

cmacd123 · May 13, 2013

I would expect that the price is set to cover costs, so really can't be fairly compared to outdated stock, or items that are made by automated machinery.

wblynch · May 13, 2013

That price for only 50 feet? Does each roll come with its own vampire attached?

Wow, it may end up difficult to meet the minimum of 20 rolls.

polyglot · May 14, 2013

oleg-photo said:
I have just found out the cost of 70mm perforated ( http://www.ag-photographic.co.uk/hp5-70mm-x-50ft-double-perforated-3470-p.asp ). Well... I am affraid, I am to stick with out-of-date Kodak... Or, I should buy fresh HP-5 in 120 rolls as it would be almost 3 times cheaper! In 2009 Martin Reed mentioned completely different range of prices...

I am in a similar situation - I have a 70mm back and was going to order a roll to support the ULF run, but at this price (220GBP=$340 for 50', which is about 18 rolls of 120; maybe it's slightly cheaper at other vendors?) there is no way I can justify it. I don't expect Ilford to sell it to me for less than it costs to make, but likewise I can't pay over 4x the price of 120.

For comparison, I'm buying fresh Rollei IR400 from macodirect for $87/100', which is nearly 8x cheaper. I am honestly surprised at that price differential.

oleg-photo · May 14, 2013

I am sorry for the second time quoting the same:

Martin Reed said:
As a possible extension of the Harman special sheet film production scheme, is there any interest in something similar in FP4/HP5 in 70mm perforated?

Having run it past the planners at Harman, they are prepared to cut it as a special order for Silverprint. We would have to order a minimum of 60 cans of 30 metres, in either film type, and keeping it priced as competitively as possible it would sell at £80.00 + VAT per roll. This price is not significantly more than the equivalent sq. metres in 35mm 30 metres, so Harman are being supportive here. We would take a chance in holding some stock, but would like around 60-70% of it covered with committed orders to go ahead.

When we first discussed it, Simon Galley estimated it would need a £20-30k order to kick it off - this then came down to 120 cans, so 60 cans is a big concession from Harman. So is there enough of a user base in 70mm to keep a regular supply of the format on tap, in very popular emulsions? We await the response with interest.

Martin Reed at Silverprint had mentioned 2009 prices for 100' rolls. Was the technology and cost of silver so much cheaper that particular year?
For comparison I'll quote from http://www.photomemorabilia.co.uk/Ilford/Chronology.html#anchorTimeLine
"1992. Ilford 100 Delta film announced at Photokina. The recommended guide price for a 36exposure cassette was £3.50p."
The difference in price in 1992 and 2013 you can judge yourself...

Simon R Galley · May 14, 2013

Yes we did sort out a 70mm run for SILVERPRINT and the order was never made to the best of my knowledge as no one ordered it.

I fully appreciate the cost of all ULF and photographic products, the pricing is the absolute best we and and our partners can deliver. As I have shared with you many times, we make this once a year to try and keep the costs down and hopefully cover most of ours.

If you can find an alternative at a lower cost then thats fine, most of these items are offered and made as no one else makes them, the 70mm perfed and unperfed was requested and has been made available as promised.

Kind Regards,

Simon. ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology Limited

Lee Smathers · May 14, 2013

I think I'll be limited to 2 boxes of 7x17 in FP4+ and am trying to decided whether I should do the roll of 122 or not in addition to the order.

I could get 5 boxes of 5x7 for the roughly the same price as 122, except 5x7 would be 125 images vs. roughly 90-100 images in 3.25 x 5.5 inches. I've got six weeks to decide. I really want to support this ULF run as much as I can. The 122 Film format really should be resurrected - hardly likely in this digital age, but we've seen a revival with 110 cameras. However, I doubt I'd do more than 15-16 rolls of 122 in a year with the rest of my large format work, so I might just give it a try. I hope there will be 19 others who will join in having this produced.

oleg-photo · May 14, 2013

Simon, I appreciate your effort to help us and I really want Ilford to continue to produce amazing films in the future. But please try to understand. The exotic formats you make are for artists, who probably do not shoot hundreds rolls a year and would buy a pack or two of sheet film for their experiments. But they do not make a lot of cash out of photography and even such small quantity for them is a small fortune. I am a former professional photographer who has no digital camera and my clients do not want me to switch to digital. In the past Fujifilm supplied me with film on a regular basis and I did not even monitor how much film cost. I left Big photography a few years ago, started to count film and realised that I could not afford to pay 5 pounds per roll shooting regularly. My last Fuji supply of 400 rolls of Neopan had almost finished and I found that 70mm film (perforated) could be the alternative to roll film. That time I read about the Silverprint/Ilford project and talked to Martin Reed. £96 (VAT inclusive) for 100’ (equivalent to about 40 rolls 120) sounded reasonable, and I thought that this time the price range would be similar.
I simply cannot imagine who can afford that difference in price: £448 for the same quantity!
I am really sorry, I cannot. I should learn instead that 4-5 pounds per 120 roll of FP-4/HP-5 is normal nowadays and shoot less than usually.
Regards,
Oleg Micheyev

StoneNYC · May 15, 2013

Simon.

I haven't been able to call freestyle to get the US prices yet, but if they are as high as the UK I know even more people will complain.

SO in order to curb the complaints, I have a question. Is there a tier of rolls ordered that would bring the price down significantly? For example, 20 is the minimum, but what if 100 were ordered? Would the price be more reasonable?

Same goes for all the films, perhaps there's a general percentage that could be given at least for the roll films?

I was planning to order 122,127,70mm double perf, AND 70mm non-perf but now I'm concerned I wouldn't be able to order ANY.

So is there some kind of movement if the order gets larger?

~Stone | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk

Lee Smathers · May 16, 2013

I'm okay with these prices (not ideal, but at least the 122 rolls is under $200, whereas I've seen it for close to $250 at other places):
http://www.ultrafineonline.com/il20ulfprhp4.html
Still waiting on Freestyle Photo and MPEX to see how they compare.
Re-rolling 122 film is looking more optimistic to me.

Lee Smathers · May 16, 2013

Check out these prices!
Dead Link Removed
Thank you MPEX!!!!!! I might actually order 2 rolls of HP5+ in 122!!!

TheToadMen · May 16, 2013

With this link you see all the Ilford film sizes & prices at MPEX:
Dead Link Removed

StoneNYC · May 16, 2013

Lee Smathers said:
Check out these prices!
Dead Link Removed
Thank you MPEX!!!!!! I might actually order 2 rolls of HP5+ in 122!!!

How did you search for that because I can't find 127 format anywhere on the site... Nor the 70mm stuff

~Stone | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk

Lee Smathers · May 16, 2013

StoneNYC said:
How did you search for that because I can't find 127 format anywhere on the site... Nor the 70mm stuff

~Stone | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk

I've been looking everyday since Monday, including today and couldn't find it through the search. I had asked a representative about it a few days ago and he said it would be up the next day. Since I didn't see it today, I did a search with the Ilford product number that is listed on Ilford's ULF announcement. MPEX has the lowest prices on all the films so far. I've purchased 5x7 and 7x17 from them before and have it shipped to me in Korea. Very reasonable. 122 rolls for about $11.50 a piece.

wblynch · May 16, 2013

The Ultrafine Online price for 46mmx50ft fits my budget. I will place my order.

Thanks Harman and Simon !

Lee Smathers · May 17, 2013

Freestyle's prices on roll films are up now too. I hope Ultrafine Online, MPEX, and Freestyle's prices are closer to what people were expecting to pay and we can order enough of these formats produced this year to have them continued to be produced in the future.

StoneNYC · May 18, 2013

Lee Smathers said:
Freestyle's prices on roll films are up now too. I hope Ultrafine Online, MPEX, and Freestyle's prices are closer to what people were expecting to pay and we can order enough of these formats produced this year to have them continued to be produced in the future.

The prices are much better, I think there should be enough orders. But still very high. I wonder if once the machinery needed to make them are produced, if the prices will come down next year?

~Stone | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk

Roger Thoms · May 18, 2013

What I would like to know is why 3.25"x4.25" film is so expensive, very close in price to 4"x10" film.

Roger

spoolman · May 18, 2013

I've just completed a series of measurements on unprocessed and processed Kodak VP 122 film and had them verified by 3 different people. 122 film is 90 mm wide or 3 1/2 inches !!!!!. Whomever advised Simon Galley concerning this size of film should re-check their measurements. 82.55 mm is too small,by my calculations, for any camera that takes 122 film. I've been shooting this film size for 5 years and can say that 90 mm is the correct width of this size of film. Fortunately the 9 cm roll of FP-4+ is the right size so I am going to order two rolls of it.

Doug

Lee Smathers · May 18, 2013

Doug, if that's true this may be our best offer on the film:
Dead Link Removed

I'll have to do some measurements of my own.

Curt · May 18, 2013

StoneNYC said:
How did you search for that because I can't find 127 format anywhere on the site... Nor the 70mm stuff

~Stone | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk

nor the FP4+ 11x14

spoolman · May 18, 2013

Well folks it seems that I'm going to have to eat a little crow on this one. After checking the price lists for Freestyle and The Bigcameraworkshop the size for the 122 film offered by Ilford is indeed the correct size 91.5 mm. However, the 9 cm/90 mm shown is basically the same size but is, for the most part, less expensive than the 122 size (91.5 mm) offered. Anyway, you make the call on this one depending on your preference.

Humbly yours,

Doug

Curt · May 18, 2013

Roger, from what I see the prices must be figure by a formula more complex than just surface area. They must be putting a value on each format based on volume, cost of production including confectioning etc.. I would guess that the cost is offset by a higher cost for the format and adjusted prices for the more popular formats to cover the cost.

I'd be interested in seeing Pan F+ in sheet film sizes but the capability of production doesn't exist.

Curt

Lee Smathers · May 19, 2013

spoolman said:
Well folks it seems that I'm going to have to eat a little crow on this one. After checking the price lists for Freestyle and The Bigcameraworkshop the size for the 122 film offered by Ilford is indeed the correct size 91.5 mm. However, the 9 cm/90 mm shown is basically the same size but is, for the most part, less expensive than the 122 size (91.5 mm) offered. Anyway, you make the call on this one depending on your preference.

Humbly yours,

Doug

MPEX's prices for the 122 HP5 and 9cm FP4 are the same.

Oh wow, just checked. I like Freestyles prices on the 9cm FP4!

cmacd123 · May 19, 2013

Curt said:
Roger, from what I see the prices must be figure by a formula more complex than just surface area. They must be putting a value on each format based on volume, cost of production including confectioning etc.. I

I would not be surprised if to make some sizes, they actually start with a larger size, and then have to cut it down by hand, throwing away the trimmings. Also they may have to make the box by hand, and or cut a filler piece for a larger box so that it is packed securely.

If they had to make a tool to cut the film, your cost includes part of the cost of that tool.

2013 ULF Manufacture From ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology Limited

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency