2013 ULF Manufacture From ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology Limited

anikin · May 3, 2013

Simon R Galley said:
Dear Shalom,

Well you are lucky as we will be making 122 FORMAT roll film available in slittings ( in HP5+ only )
on a purely technical point we make 122 FORMAT as being 3 and 1/4 wide 82.55mm.

One of the delays in issuing the item list to be manufactured is that it has grown to be our biggest ever offering in the ULF run with 62 different items.

These ULF and custom item lists are obviously being shared and worked on with our distributors and re-seller partners at this time so as they have all the information, including pricing that you will need when you place your orders.

The actual date we plan to release all the information via our website ( and on APUG ) is Friday 10th May ( one week today ) at 5.00pm UK time.

And finally.... for the large number of people who have PM emmed I CAN CONFIRM 70mm HP5+ ( roll film base ) will be available in 50 foot lengths UNPERFORATED and DOUBLE REFORATED.....alongside some other surprises.

Simon ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology Limited :

Thank you Simon!!!!!!!! This is fantastic news!!!!!

anikin · May 3, 2013

WAAAAIT!!!!! Simon, the 122 format is 3 and 1/4 for IMAGE size. The film itself is 3.715" or about 94mm.
I will PM you as well.

Eugene.

Simon R Galley said:
Dear Shalom,

Well you are lucky as we will be making 122 FORMAT roll film available in slittings ( in HP5+ only )
on a purely technical point we make 122 FORMAT as being 3 and 1/4 wide 82.55mm.

lxdude · May 4, 2013

viridari said:
Note that she's with Kodak's third party ministry of propaganda (PR firm). This is spin control, not meaningful dialogue with someone from Kodak. They've outsource it.

I just came across this today, and want to comment.

Yes, Colleen is PR. She states that clearly, and we all know that PR people have limitations in what they can say. She came on APUG and other photo forums after Kodak announced last year that they were selling the film business. Kodak's announcement was not well crafted, and created much confusion. She caught a lot of flack here for being a PR person, though she made it clear that her role was to communicate official word- to add clarity in a time in which confusion, rumor and speculation were rampant. She told us what was going on at the time, while cautioning that as she was with a PR firm, she was not privy to all the latest information from corporate. She was very direct and straightforward. Most of us were glad to have her here, as silence was all that had been coming from Kodak.
She obviously is providing the "official word", and never obscured that fact. But she did not come here and to other photo forums to pass out peppy press releases, and she has not done that. She is not dispensing pabulum. She is PR, but she is not a PR hack. If nothing else, she deserves a respectful listen.

Colleen is well respected by people in the business. I want to quote Roger Hicks, a member here and elsewhere, who has published numerous photo books over the past 3 decades and is well known and well respected. This is what he said August 23, 2012 in Rangefinder Forum regarding Colleen after she went on there to explain what was going on:

"Colleen has yet to tell me anything that's not true, and I've known her for a fair few years. This is REALLY good inside information."

www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=122946

In my opinion, if Roger Hicks says it, you can bank it.

lxdude · May 4, 2013

StoneNYC said:
I also find it EXTREMELY rude that I've NEVER seen you post anywhere before but decide to chime in on a competitors post. Particularly the one who DOES care about the customer and interacts and listens to us.

www.apug.org/forums/forum390/109319-its-official-kodak-selling-its-film-business.html

If you check her past posts, you will find most on that thread. Give her a break- she's trying to help.

Sorry for the interruption in the thread, Simon.
Oh, and you guys rock.

StoneNYC · May 4, 2013

lxdude said:
www.apug.org/forums/forum390/109319-its-official-kodak-selling-its-film-business.html

If you check her past posts, you will find most on that thread. Give her a break- she's trying to help.

Sorry for the interruption in the thread, Simon.
Oh, and you guys rock.

It's over, that was a while ago there's no need to bring it up further I had never seen her post before that's all. I was wrong obviously, but I still think it's the wrong place to be posting, she should be posting when they make a new Kodak announcement like with this new event, but I haven't seen her start a post about that either. Others respect her info so I'll say no more.

~Stone | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk

lxdude · May 4, 2013

Stone, she was addressing a rumor on this thread claiming Kodak had stopped making film, and would use out the last master rolls over the next several years. That's a pretty damn serious rumor to just ignore. She was within her rights to address that, even on a thread from Ilford. She posted to clarify, not to push Kodak. It was entirely appropriate.
On threads about Kodak, Simon has commented when appropriate, and as a member, he certainly has the right to join the discussion anyway.

As for the recent announcement, I don't know how you missed this:

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

Just because you didn't see it doesn't mean it didn't happen.

wblynch · May 4, 2013

Can we please keep this thread for the ILFORD ULF film program? I don't think it's fair to keep talking about Kodak in an ILFORD thread.

Shalom · May 4, 2013

anikin said:
WAAAAIT!!!!! Simon, the 122 format is 3 and 1/4 for IMAGE size. The film itself is 3.715" or about 94mm.

The SPOOL is 3.715" wide. I'd guess the film itself would have to be a tiny bit narrower than that so it doesn't jam between the flanges.

I just measured some actual 122 film stock, and it came out as 3.614", more or less. I don't know whether this is factory VP122 or some of that 105mm Ortho Copy microfiche that I cut down myself; the edge markings only say "KODAK SAFETY FILM" with no frame numbers. 3-5/8 is exactly 3.625", so this would be pretty close.

edit to add: when you say you're making 122 film, I don't suppose you're going to be selling it with backing paper and/or spools?

Come to think of it, there'd likely be a great market for just the backing paper. Heck I'd even buy a wide roll of plain backing paper myself and slit it down as I need it; spools I can make myself if I have to. Any possibility of making the backing paper available for sale?

StoneNYC · May 5, 2013

wblynch said:
Can we please keep this thread for the ILFORD ULF film program? I don't think it's fair to keep talking about Kodak in an ILFORD thread.

^^^^^ thats what I'm trying to say ^^^^

anikin · May 5, 2013

Shalom said:
The SPOOL is 3.715" wide. I'd guess the film itself would have to be a tiny bit narrower than that so it doesn't jam between the flanges.

I just measured some actual 122 film stock, and it came out as 3.614", more or less. I don't know whether this is factory VP122 or some of that 105mm Ortho Copy microfiche that I cut down myself; the edge markings only say "KODAK SAFETY FILM" with no frame numbers. 3-5/8 is exactly 3.625", so this would be pretty close.

Thank you Shalom for the correction. I wrote the message before I processed my first roll of 122, so I had nothing to measure against, only online references. I now have processed a roll of verichrome pan and I agree, my film measures 3-5/8 inch wide as well. Which makes sense since 3.715 would be a rather weird number

Simon, my offer is still open. I can express mail a piece of the film and a spool, if needed, to you so you can match it when cutting HP5+.

Eugene.

Eugene.

filmamigo · May 6, 2013

Simon R Galley said:
Well you are lucky as we will be making 122 FORMAT roll film available in slittings ( in HP5+ only )
on a purely technical point we make 122 FORMAT as being 3 and 1/4 wide 82.55mm. :

Thank you!!!!!! This is fantastic!!

Simon R Galley · May 7, 2013

Dear All,

I think I may have got the jump on you lot for once.....We will actually be making Roll film Wrapper ( 120 backing paper ) available in 100' lengths in in the ULF run.

Simon. ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology Limited.

Simon R Galley · May 7, 2013

Re 122 Film

The issue we have is that is removed from the ISO standards.

Do not worry, we will find out the correct size by the time we cut it !.

Simon. ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology Limited :

StoneNYC · May 7, 2013

Simon R Galley said:
Re 122 Film

The issue we have is that is removed from the ISO standards.

Do not worry, we will find out the correct size by the time we cut it !.

Simon. ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology Limited :

Hey Simon, this is great! I know this run is much greater than in the last with so many specialized sizes, so thank you!

That said, if you see a pattern where some film doesn't sell (can't see how but just as an example) would you consider making some kind of company statement about every... 3-5 years having a more extensive run? So even if it won't work out that there's enough to do it every year, that as a company you will commit to continued runs SI ce you're the only provider? Even if it's only every few years?

Just wondering if that can be done (with an actual published predicted list of special runs).

Thanks. Hope that was clear.

~Stone | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk

Simon R Galley · May 7, 2013

Dear Stone,

The reason why we do the ULF run once per annum is to minimise costs and especially waste and by doing that we can cover the additional costs and justify offering this as a service, it is very, very expensive to make in such small numbers and 'manually' integrate this into the production systems and schedules. It is why I have to have the senior managements approval every year to run the ULF programme. BUT it is a also very important that we do it because this area of the market, the people especially, are very dedicated and produce some of the most special and important images in silver based photography, and it follows they are therefore customers with a specific need that needs to be addressed... so I cannot ever envisage HARMAN technology not doing it.

The list this year will be the biggest ever, I cannot think it could possibly expand very much further or that we could ever agree to do even more specialist items even once every two or three years.

I hope that answers your question.

Simon ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology Limited :

Jim Noel · May 7, 2013

Has the order date passed, or is there still time for 2013?

Thanks

TheToadMen · May 7, 2013

Simon R Galley said:
Dear All,
As you know I advised that we would release all the information relating to the 2013 ULF and Custom Film manufacture via a press release by the end of April.
Just to update you we are still working through with our distributor and reseller partners some details they need before we can release the details via press release, so its likely the press release will go out week beginning May 6th 2013.
I apologise for this short delay.
Regards
Simon. ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology Limited :

Hello Simon,
I was curious if things were going as planned and if the press release will come out this week?
I couldn't find yet it at http://www.ilfordphoto.com/pressroom/ or am I looking at the wrong site?
I can understand this isn't an easy project fot you guys, so thank you for all the hard work !!

And may I suggest that everyone, who is getting film through this ULF-2013 sends one print to Ilford (attn. Simon R. Galley) just as a thank you for still being committed to B&W film in non-commercial formats, thus keeping our hobbies alive?

StoneNYC · May 7, 2013

Simon R Galley said:
Dear Stone,

The reason why we do the ULF run once per annum is to minimise costs and especially waste and by doing that we can cover the additional costs and justify offering this as a service, it is very, very expensive to make in such small numbers and 'manually' integrate this into the production systems and schedules. It is why I have to have the senior managements approval every year to run the ULF programme. BUT it is a also very important that we do it because this area of the market, the people especially, are very dedicated and produce some of the most special and important images in silver based photography, and it follows they are therefore customers with a specific need that needs to be addressed... so I cannot ever envisage HARMAN technology not doing it.

The list this year will be the biggest ever, I cannot think it could possibly expand very much further or that we could ever agree to do even more specialist items even once every two or three years.

I hope that answers your question.

Simon ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology Limited :

Thanks Simon.

It does and it doesn't answer my question, because it was more of a suggestion to HELP Ilford save money.

I'll try and be clear and concise.

So to use an example.

122 is a specialty size so lets just use that as an example.

So, after this run, there will be data on what sold when and how quickly and what took a while to sell.

Based on that info, you can infer that certain films will be better to produce every 2 years rather than every year during the ULF. SO if you kept and produced a list of films you would say, you would produce every 2-3 years, it would help photographers to know what to prepare for.

For example, I discover a sweet 122 camera at the market, I want to buy it, but don't know when film will be available if ever... SO, if there were a list, that told me, in 8 months I would be able to get film for the camera, I would purchase the camera and be prepared to buy the film when it's available. This works for the photographer as they are "guaranteed" that film will be available. And benefits Ilford because I might not buy the camera if I were unsure of attaining the film, and therefore ilford will sell less film because I won't be buying it because I didn't buy the camera.

So you increase the sales of the specialty film, when photographers can "gear up" ahead of time, knowing the film will be made even if it's a few years down the road.

Rather than hoping and begging (possibly in an annoying way) for ilford to MAYBE produce the film I need (for example the 70mm perforated that we thought wasn't going to be made, so I sold one of my 70mm perforated backs, only to find out after that you will now be making it after all... ) [dont worry I have 2 of them, this is just an example, and I'll still be buying the 70mm perf].

Does this make sense now? Am I wrong that this would be a mutually beneficial thing to be able to plan for ahead of time?

Thanks.

~Stone | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk

Sal Santamaura · May 7, 2013

Jim Noel said:
Has the order date passed, or is there still time for 2013?...

TheToadMen said:
...I was curious if things were going as planned and if the press release will come out this week?
I couldn't find yet it at http://www.ilfordphoto.com/pressroom/ or am I looking at the wrong site?...

If forum moderators weren't already so burdened, I'd lobby hard for some mechanism that requires reading (and clicking on to confirm it was read) every post in a thread before one could submit a new post. Just a short way up in this thread:

Simon R Galley said:
The actual date we plan to release all the information via our website ( and on APUG ) is Friday 10th May ( one week today ) at 5.00pm UK time

Patience, children. Friday's only three days away.

Sal Santamaura · May 7, 2013

StoneNYC said:
...So, after this run, there will be data on what sold when and how quickly and what took a while to sell...

Since everything ordered during the window will be prepaid and delivered, regardless of quantity, the datum for "what sold when" will be "June" and the datum for "what took a while to sell" will be "nothing."

wblynch · May 7, 2013

There are probably 10,000 more words in this thread than needs to be. Sorry for the extra 18.

StoneNYC · May 7, 2013

Sal Santamaura said:
Since everything ordered during the window will be prepaid and delivered, regardless of quantity, the datum for "what sold when" will be "June" and the datum for "what took a while to sell" will be "nothing."

AHH ok, hmm well still the data will give a good idea for future runs, I still like my idea overall.

~Stone | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk

oleg-photo · May 8, 2013

StoneNYC said:
...Rather than hoping and begging (possibly in an annoying way) for ilford to MAYBE produce the film I need (for example the 70mm perforated that we thought wasn't going to be made, so I sold one of my 70mm perforated backs, only to find out after that you will now be making it after all... ) [dont worry I have 2 of them, this is just an example, and I'll still be buying the 70mm perf].

Does this make sense now? Am I wrong that this would be a mutually beneficial thing to be able to plan for ahead of time?

Thanks.

~Stone | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk

When I had found out that Ilford was not going to produce 70mm perforated, I wrote to this thread with the question to Simon. As he did not answer within a reasonable period, I had to buy 5 x 50' rolls of Kodak 2405 in Canada... Of course, I am still interested in fresh HP-5, but I wish I new about the Ilford plans a little bit earlier, especially after they had announced that they were not going to produce such size...

TheToadMen · May 8, 2013

I received this message today (May 8th) from one of the distributers:

Ilford will be issuing their “ULF Dealer list 2013” tomorrow. We certainly are a distributor and I will forward you the information when we receive it.

Simon R Galley · May 8, 2013

Dear Oleg-Photo,

I'm sorry, but I have to have approval for each item, the 70mm double perforated was especially difficult as we had to invest in having a perforator altered and upgraded to 70mm, with no gurantee we will get any orders...but the work needs to be done before I can even confirm we can do it.

Simon ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology Limited :

2013 ULF Manufacture From ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology Limited

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency