>15x enlargements from 135 negatives? [SOLVED]

pdeeh · Oct 28, 2016

I'm almost exclusively making alt-prints from darkroom-made negatives at the moment.

The process is to make interpositives by contact from the original negatives onto lith film, then enlarge the interpos to negative also on lith.

This works extremely well for my purposes, although I'm still far from skilled in the execution.

At the moment I have a couple of 135s from which I'd like to try making really big negatives - around 16x20" (400x500mm).

The specs for my Kaiser SystemV 6002 (+ 50/2.8) suggest that I can go to 15x , which would cover just about what I need. However the fact is that even with the head racked up to the stops on the column, it won't cover as big as I want in the short dimension (I can get 20" long dimension but of course with a 135 the short dimension is only about 13" at that level of enlargement)

One solution is of course to make an enlarged interpos (about the size of a 645 neg) direct from the negative, and I have tried this, though getting critically sharp focus on a barely more than 2x enlargement hasn't proved easy.

The other solution I assume is to get hold of a 35mm or 40mm enlarging lens - but ones in my price range are rare as hen's teeth, at least in the EU. (Finding one in the £100-£200 range is easy of course).

I've seen a couple of Vivitar 35s and 40s on sale on eBay USA - are they likely to be the right solution? Or are the 35s more aimed at half-frame negatives? And I also wonder whether I'll run out of bellows compression, or need a special lens holder for the Kaiser. I'm checking with Kaiser for the latter btw.

so ... thoughts? (new enlarger with longer column, not an option.)

Svenedin · Oct 28, 2016

I have a Kaiser System V 7005 (6x7) with a 1 metre column. I use 40mm WA for bigger enlargements from 135. A longer column is one solution, they make 1.2 or 1.5 metre columns but the image will tend to be thrown behind the column at big enlargements so it may need an extension on the head as well (this increases the horizontal distance between column and enlarger head. Kaiser make 2 lens holder rings. One is for up to 50mm (concave) and the other for longer lenses (convex). Kaiser part number 4423 (up to 50mm) 4424 (over 50mm). RK photographic or Silverprint sell them amongst others.

Edit: as others have said below you can turn the column round, counterbalance the base with a heavy weight and project on the floor. I have done this for massive prints.

summicron1 · Oct 28, 2016

Can you not turn the enlarger around and project on to the floor or wall?

pcyco · Oct 28, 2016

rotate the head for a wall projection.

regards thomas

pdeeh · Oct 28, 2016

I am feeling extremely red-faced.

Of course I knew about using horizontal enlargement - I had even tested it, apparently to no avail as I ran out of bellows compression before the image was in focus.

I mean, why would I start yet another enlarging thread about really big enlargements when there are already dozens with all the right solutions, many of which I read long since?

However ... I have a different lensholder arrangement to the one noted by Svenedin; my lens holder is in two parts, with a central fitting that the lens screws into which then itself sits in an annulus which screws into the head. The central fitting is reversible for lenses 50mm or less.

What I'd failed to do in all my testing was reverse the fitting for the shorter 50mm lens (I do almost everything with an 80).

Hence this thread is all for nothing. There was never a problem except between my ears.

thanks for the suggestions everyone, even though I knew and had tried a few of them already

[/slinks off to hide in corner]

Svenedin · Oct 28, 2016

No need to be red faced. You have found the solution! Good luck with your enlargements!

pdeeh · Oct 28, 2016

It's so annoying because I so often advocate for stepwise testing and proper research, and then I post an idiot's query myself when I should have worked it out days ago.

nevermind.

the next problem is finding a big enough tray (I'm a cheapskate who objects to spending £40 on a Paterson 20x24, so I've been haunting garden centres looking for big enough gravel trays; of course now its Autumn, no gravel trays in garden centres; sigh; so I expect I'll dither a few more weeks until I'm annoyed enough to buy what I should have done in the first place - the Paterson - a month ago )

DREW WILEY · Oct 28, 2016

By the time you got decent results, you'd probably more on sheet film than a bigger enlarger and appropriate lens would cost.

pdeeh · Oct 28, 2016

it's a good thing then that your opinions on any subject whatsoever are of vanishingly small interest or value to me, drew ...

Svenedin · Oct 28, 2016

Someone is selling 4 x 20x24 trays on the auctions site for £40 at the moment. Not that you need 4!

pdeeh · Oct 28, 2016

ha! I couldn't fit two in my darkroom let alone 4
as it is I'm planning on having to do everything in a single tray.

klownshed · Oct 28, 2016

I often find I solve problems by talking it through with somebody. Just the process of asking the question often makes the answer obvious.

There are no stupid questions, just stupid answers. And the odd annoying internet pedant/troll.

pdeeh said:
it's a good thing then that your opinions on any subject whatsoever are of vanishingly small interest or value to me, drew ...

Click the 'ignore' button and that vanishingly small interest vanishes entirely

Svenedin · Oct 28, 2016

pdeeh said:
ha! I couldn't fit two in my darkroom let alone 4
as it is I'm planning on having to do everything in a single tray.

I know what you mean. I only have one that size and it is a while since I have made a big print. The tray is handy for other uses....Watering houseplants, to work over for catching small screws, etc etc.

DREW WILEY · Oct 28, 2016

Thanks for the tip, pdeeh... I'll put you on ignore.

DREW WILEY · Oct 28, 2016

klownshed too. Appropriate name, at least.

pdeeh · Oct 28, 2016

DREW WILEY said:
... pdeeh... I'll put you on ignore.

I'm living' the dream!

cliveh · Oct 28, 2016

You could always use a cardboard box cut down as a tray and lined with a bin liner.

pdeeh · Oct 28, 2016

cliveh said:
You could always use a cardboard box cut down as a tray and lined with a bin liner.

I could, and there are all sorts of makeshift solutions clive, but because I work in a temporary and extremely cramped darkroom, the logistics of working with big negatives and prints are challenging. Accordingly I'd prefer a decent solid rigid tray, because it'll all have to be done in a single tray, tipping developer and fix in and out.

I'm all for making shift and not worrying about having the specialised equipment (I wash a lot of prints in cat litter trays for instance), but there are cases where the advantages of a well designed purpose-made item outweigh all other considerations, and this is one in my eyes.

No big deal, just a matter of dithering because of the expense really.

Svenedin · Oct 28, 2016

Pdeeh, by the way, I was on the phone to Paul at Second Hand Darkroom today. We talked about a longer column but in fact I was looking for a 60mm WA lens. He said he was shipping a 1.5m column to another customer today and he can supply them. We didn't get as far as talking about prices. It might be worth giving him a call as second hand columns might be reasonable.

Edit: your post above appeared after I had typed this. Perhaps too cramped in your darkroom regardless of whether you could get a longer column at a decent price.

pdeeh · Oct 28, 2016

Thanks Svenedin.

In this case, I'm happy with the solution I've found (well, in fact as we know it was never a problem in the first place really) and I really don't need any more specialised kit that I don't really need, I have far too much of that already lying around under- and un-used.

Svenedin · Oct 28, 2016

Ha yes I know the feeling. I am going to have a clear out and sell the lenses I don't use amongst lots of other things (mostly not photographic).

By the way, I hope you like your enlarger. I love mine. Just so well designed. I have a Multigrade head. Is that what you have?

pdeeh · Oct 28, 2016

colour head.
I actually got it for nothing. I advertised on my local freecycle for darkroom bits and was offered it.
the donor had been a professional photographer specialising in the Arctic and Greenland.
it's fine, it does what it's supposed to do without fuss or bother. my only problem has been the power supply failing. they are hideously expensive, but I managed to find a couple of the unstabilised ones on ebay for a smallish sum.
it lives in the bedroom and I need to dismantle it and clean the condenser elements. I noticed this evening they're covered in kak.
freecycle is a great resource. I've got two
other enlargers off it for nothing stuck In the spare room. another kaiser with colour head, and an opemus 6
I didn't really want them but they came with other stuff I wanted and donors usually want just to get rid of everything.

Svenedin · Oct 28, 2016

Good you got it for nothing! I've taken mine apart for cleaning before. Not difficult. The condensers are designed to be interchangeable so it's not much of a hassle to clean them. You may as well give it a good service and blow all the dust out as well. Dust is my nemesis and has ruined even more prints than I have through incompetence (and that's saying something!).

removed account4 · Oct 28, 2016

pdeeh said:
I could, and there are all sorts of makeshift solutions clive, but because I work in a temporary and extremely cramped darkroom, the logistics of working with big negatives and prints are challenging. Accordingly I'd prefer a decent solid rigid tray, because it'll all have to be done in a single tray, tipping developer and fix in and out.

if you find wallpaper troughs you can see saw the prints in them, ( they are pretty narrow ... ) and/ or you can get a drainage pipe for doing french drains
( they are perpherated ... ) get one with a large enough diameter still able to fit in your troughs, and roll the tube in the trough .. if you can' t find a pipe
that has perpherations you can easily take a drill and make your own. the perpherated pipe is kind of like what some spinning print washers are like a tub
with a giant spinning print drum. good luck ( have fun ! )

john

pdeeh · Oct 29, 2016

john the problem with seesawing is that the paper i generally use for alt prints is a stiff 300gsm mixed-media paper so I'm not confident that even when wet it would be soft enough to do the trough thing. maybe if i went down to a lighter-weight fabriano or similar it could work though.

i think clive once suggested to someone they develop their films in their own pee in trays outside at night by the light of the moon, so maybe that's an option to give myself more space to work

>15x enlargements from 135 negatives? [SOLVED]

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