120 film undeveloped edges.

[Kyle M.]

I've been having a problem while developing 120 film for about 8 months now and I can't seem to solve it. Every single roll of 120 that I have developed in the past 8 months has had dark edges which look like light leaks in random spots outside of the frame extending to the edge of the film. Sometimes they bleed into the frame. I have had this issue with a Hasselblad 500C, Mamiya RZ67, Mamiya RB67 Pro-S, Mamiya 645, Mamiya 645 Super, and a Kiev 60. I had been developing my own film for about 2 years prior to this incident starting and had never had this problem before. I use paterson tanks with 600ml of chemistry in them, and I have not changed anything in my processing. Could it be possible that all of these cameras have the same light leaks which are not extending into the frame? Or is it likely an issue of too little chemistry in the tank? Or maybe the film is sticking to the reels and developer is unable to get into this area? I haven't bought new reels or anything like that, I have removed the ball bearings from all of my Paterson reels to ease loading but I don't see how that could be causing the problem. Any ideas? Also if needed I can post photos of the negatives to help diagnose. The worst ones are from the RB67, it has a Pro-SD back on it so the only light seals are the dark slide slot. Though these definitely don't look like they're dark slide light leaks. I've put about 100 rolls of film through this RB67 and never had a problem, it's been sitting unused for the past 13 months and I don't see what could possibly have changed. I'm going out in a bit to shoot a test roll and use more chemistry in the tank this time, maybe my reels are getting worn and are floating around during agitation?

 

[Jim Noel]

Dark edges indicate light leaks, not undeveloped areas. Rather than the cameras,I suspect your loading/unloading techniques. Somewhere along the line you appear to be allowing the backing to get loose on the spool. Regardless of experience, we all get a little lax at times.

 

[Gerald C Koch]

The seal between the backing paper and the edges of the spool are not perfectly light tight. Always load and unload film away from direct light and immediately place exposed spools in aluminum foil or use a 120 can. These are available from photo supply stores. Also check the paper after exposure if the spool wobbles in the camera the edge of the paper can be damaged.

 

[Helinophoto]

I have that all the time too, even when I think I am being very careful to keep the reel tight and also tighten it while rolling the film completely onto the take up-spool.

It's light-leaks indeed, I confirmed the problems I had by loading and unloading all my cameras in complete darkness for a while, also into a tank to hold them until I was to develop them, because I needed to know if my cameras had any problems.
- Never a single mark on the edge when I did that.

Some films are worse than others, not quite sure if thick backing paper is better than thin.

 

[pentaxuser]

It does suggest light leaks that occur when the backing paper isn't tight enough to the film at its edges but I appreciate your comment that prior to 8 months ago it was not happening and prior to that you had 18 months of success

If it is happening with all of your cameras and only in the last 8 months there has to be a common factor that has entered the equation.

Unless you only purchased all the cameras in the last 8 months I'd be inclined to rule out the cameras

Can you say whether in the last 8 months the dark streaks have occurred every time and with all the cameras or have you had the odd success with no dark streaks and if so what was different, assuming you can recall which again isn't easy?

Can you rack your brains and see if there might be anything else that has changed such as loading and unloading the film in brighter conditions than before, different tank etc?

If you cannot come up with anything then try loading and unloading a new film in very subdued lighting or even in total darkness if you can. Then unload it in total darkness( a bit easier than loading ) and place on the developing reel in the same total darkness.

If the streaks disappear then it would seem to be light ingress via the backing paper.

pentaxuser

 

[ic-racer]

Always load 120 film in dim light. Don't let sunlight fall on the rolls. Under development is frequently due to not enough chemistry in the tank.

 

[MattKing]

I expect that it has something to do with changes in backing paper.

As I understand it, none of the major film manufacturers make their backing paper any more, and the potential sources for backing paper are really limited.

One thing I try to do to to help prevent this is to tighten the film and backing paper on the spool before I remove it from the camera or back. Mostly, it works.

 

[Sirius Glass]

What you describe is not camera specific. Is it one edge or two edges. One edge can be light leak, chemistry or dirt in the reels. Two edges sound like the exposed roll was not wound tightly enough or the film was loaded and unloaded on bright light. Do not over tighten an exposed roll and do not put a tight rubber band around the roll or you will have a new set of problems.

 

[Kyle M.]

What you describe is not camera specific. Is it one edge or two edges. One edge can be light leak, chemistry or dirt in the reels. Two edges sound like the exposed roll was not wound tightly enough or the film was loaded and unloaded on bright light. Do not over tighten an exposed roll and do not put a tight rubber band around the roll or you will have a new set of problems.

Normally it's only a minor problem and I simply ignore it, yesterday was the first time that I had it extend into the frame. I just hung the roll I shot today up to dry it and it's just fine. I made sure to wrap the backing paper fairly tight but not overly tight when I sealed it, and that appears to have solved my problem. Apparently I was just getting lax with my film handling.

 

[snikulin]

See my recent thread: (there was a url link here which no longer exists)
Is this the same problem?

 

[Xmas]

Yes 120 film was not designed for fast film.

The instructions are load and unload in shadow.

Shop door way dark side of street.

Keep reel in sealed wrapper until loading into camera then when reel is unloaded keep in light tight pouch in gbag at least.

Expect some edge fog on first and last frames.

If you get lots of fog at end of film ie frame 12 have camera repaired...

 

[pentaxuser]

Yes 120 film was not designed for fast film.

Ilford decided to take a chance with 120 D3200 and it looks to have been a success. Having used this several times I can't say I have seen any problem. I wonder if edge light leaks are any more prevalent with D3200 than say Pan F?

pentaxuser

 

[rjbuzzclick]

Any chance that you've not been putting in the center column in the Patterson tank you've been using?

 

[Xmas]

Ilford decided to take a chance with 120 D3200 and it looks to have been a success. Having used this several times I can't say I have seen any problem. I wonder if edge light leaks are any more prevalent with D3200 than say Pan F?

pentaxuser

If you handle it careful and your camera tension springs are ok you will be ok.
If not you will get leakage with Panf and more with 3200.
I always use shop door ways etc. carry spare Avery labels, mini dark bag in gbag for used storage, only break seal of next spool after securing last one, etc. Still get slight rebate exposure with 100 ISO with taut cameras...

Many people took 8 shots and dropped box camera off at chemist for refill!

They might have had several partners on same film.

With flash you could get two Christmas trees and one beach...

 

[Kyle M.]

Any chance that you've not been putting in the center column in the Patterson tank you've been using?

I replied on the previous page and said that I found out it was my lax handling technique. I still get a teen weeny bit of fogging on the edge before the first frame, but thats no big deal. When I started shooting again 8 months ago after a 6 month break I must have just been slightly clumsy in my film handling.

 

[nwilkins]

for what it's worth I have been getting exposure in the rebate area on Tri-X since they changed the backing paper - rolls are fatter, ie not winding as tightly. at first I thought it might be my camera but I put a roll of Acros through and it was very tightly wound.

 

[Francesco_Mussida]

I've been having a problem while developing 120 film for about 8 months now and I can't seem to solve it. Every single roll of 120 that I have developed in the past 8 months has had dark edges which look like light leaks in random spots outside of the frame extending to the edge of the film. Sometimes they bleed into the frame. I have had this issue with a Hasselblad 500C, Mamiya RZ67, Mamiya RB67 Pro-S, Mamiya 645, Mamiya 645 Super, and a Kiev 60. I had been developing my own film for about 2 years prior to this incident starting and had never had this problem before. I use paterson tanks with 600ml of chemistry in them, and I have not changed anything in my processing. Could it be possible that all of these cameras have the same light leaks which are not extending into the frame? Or is it likely an issue of too little chemistry in the tank? Or maybe the film is sticking to the reels and developer is unable to get into this area? I haven't bought new reels or anything like that, I have removed the ball bearings from all of my Paterson reels to ease loading but I don't see how that could be causing the problem. Any ideas? Also if needed I can post photos of the negatives to help diagnose. The worst ones are from the RB67, it has a Pro-SD back on it so the only light seals are the dark slide slot. Though these definitely don't look like they're dark slide light leaks. I've put about 100 rolls of film through this RB67 and never had a problem, it's been sitting unused for the past 13 months and I don't see what could possibly have changed. I'm going out in a bit to shoot a test roll and use more chemistry in the tank this time, maybe my reels are getting worn and are floating around during agitation?

Hi,
I'm new here (greatest film photography forum I know), so thanks in advance for all your threads about this issue.
I'm not able to see your original image (I don't know why), so I've upload mine, because I've the same problem with my Rolleiflex films too!

I'm careful to charge and discharge films at low light ( always discharge in my changing tent at total black light), so I think could be a problem with my Paterson movements... Today I'll shot and develop a roll follow your threads advice:

• Block the spiral into the Paterson (cp2)
• Use 600 cc (but I use always 600 cc chemicals)
• Develop with slow movements
• Gentle kick the tank every 2/4 agitation...)
• Pay attention during the Fix fase, make more energetic inversion for it.

I will write to you in the next hours about it.

Thank you very much
Francesco

 

[russell_w_b]

Fomapan 400 Action is lovely film (IMO) but is dreadfully inconsistent for 'fat film' light leaks at the ends and I always unload it in the changing bag nowadays. It never seems to tighten fully on the spool like Kodak or Ilford film.

 

[osella]

Ilford decided to take a chance with 120 D3200 and it looks to have been a success. Having used this several times I can't say I have seen any problem. I wonder if edge light leaks are any more prevalent with D3200 than say Pan F?

pentaxuser

I probably use more D3200 than anything else. The only time I’ve really had an issue was when I unloaded a roll in direct mid day sunlight, even then the fogging didn’t intrude into the frame.

 

[Francesco_Mussida]

I probably use more D3200 than anything else. The only time I’ve really had an issue was when I unloaded a roll in direct mid day sunlight, even then the fogging didn’t intrude into the frame.

Hi, so do you think the problem could be the type of film itself?

I notice some kind of films, like Rollei films, are more sensible at lights (they are Pet films). My problem was with Hp5, Delta 100 and Fuji Acros too... but today I'm doing another roll of hp5 new with care about all your devices and I'll post it. Thanks.

 

[grain elevator]

looks like a "fat roll" to me. I imagine fat rolls happen more easily if there is little resistance on the side the film roll is dropped into. If your camera has a flat spring that pushes against the roll of film, gently bending that to provide more pressure is worth a try.

 

[Francesco_Mussida]

Thank you GE!
I'll check It.
Now I've finisced a roll, I'll discharged it and check the inside cover of my Rolleiflex plate, this should be the problem!

many thanks
Francesco

 

[osella]

Hi, so do you think the problem could be the type of film itself?

I was saying that even with the most sensitive film it isn’t really an issue unless loading/unloading in bright light. The fogging I’ve experienced has only effected the rebate area and hasn’t intruded into the image.

I think it’s mostly about how much tension is on the spools as others have said.

 

[Francesco_Mussida]

Thank you Osella, great, I'll check it the film tension too and I hope this problem will be fixed.