110/16mm Camera Image Quality

ic-racer · Jan 9, 2021

AgX said:
Which made me realize that I hardly ever came across 16mm still cameras locally. I am not quite sure why. Likely reason is that in the respective period such japanese cameras typically only were sold by mail-order retailers.

My local camera dealer has an interest in Minox and 16mm, so he always would have some of these cameras on his table at camera shows. That is how I got most of mine. Some of these cameras, when you see them in person and hold them, make them more desirable. You can better appreciate the small size and precision of manufacturer.

Wow, I just noticed on his site he has three GAMIs !! All local to me...maybe I need to give him a call....

http://www.igorcamera.com/vintage_subminiatures_cameras.htm
http://www.igorcamera.com/minox_spy_cameras.htm

Donald Qualls · Jan 9, 2021

ic-racer said:
Some of these cameras, when you see them in person and hold them, make them more desirable. You can better appreciate the small size and precision of manufacturer.

That's how I wound up with my first Minolta 16MG -- handling it (at a pawn shop). Still have yet to handle a Minox, or I'd probably have a B by now...

Cholentpot · Jan 10, 2021

ciniframe said:
Do you only have one sample of the 16II? I’ve only shot B&W with mine (Actually have several, they were so cheap) but usually get better results. I make enlargements of about 12x on 5X7 paper. But, as noted, the ‘0’ correction lens is on the camera almost all the time, so focus is at 33 ft. And my everyday 16II is modified and can take a homemade device that clips on a modified accessory shoe so that I can use series 5 close up lenses if I need to.
I have more enjoyment making these contraptions than actually taking pictures....go figure.

ciniframe said:
Have to admit, I’ve gone to silly lengths to get around the problems of the 16II’s fixed focus lens. If I had any sense it would be much better just to buy another Kiev 30 and be done with it. All my Minolta 16 cartridges will fit and the bigger negative and focusing lens will more than compensate for the slower top shutter speed and lack of a ‘B’ setting. Probably less than $50 from Russia or Ukraine.

Edit: Just checked ebay, Kiev 30 can be had for less than $40!

I don't have any of the filters. They seem to run in cost about as much as the camera. I only have one copy of the camera.

I do have a Kiev 30. It's in pretty beat up condition though. It's a good camera but the focus wheel is so recessed it may as well be stuck at one focal.

blockend · Jan 20, 2021

Donald Qualls said:
Kiev 30 and Kiev 303 are my favorite subminis.

Tempted by the Kiev 30. Is the build quality typical FSU or is the camera reliable?

Donald Qualls · Jan 20, 2021

blockend said:
Tempted by the Kiev 30. Is the build quality typical FSU or is the camera reliable?

I own only a single Kiev 30 and a single Kiev 303, so I don't have a representative sample, but...

Most of them (built in the early 1970s) will be infested with rotted black foam which, as far as I can tell, is unneeded. Partial disassembly to clear out the foam is expected (at least for me), but the needed operation is pretty simple. Otherwise, mine have been completely reliable, shutter and focus accurate since I got them in 2005 (though I haven't used them in a good while). It helps that the shutter is essentially a guillotine type, just a pair of plates that slide horizontally in front of the lens, and runs dry.

As a bonus, though the Kiev cassette holds more film (nominally 30 frames, but with modern film stocks you can put 40 or so on a full length strip cut from 120), it will also accept all Minolta format cassettes at their original capacity (20 frames, about half the length of a 120 strip with careful loading).

The 30 has B shutter and PC sync socket, so it ought to be possible to fabricate a "clamp" like the ones available for the Minolta 16II, to provide a tripod socket and cold shoe; the clamp can also be used to mount a threaded receptacle for a cable release.

xya · Jan 21, 2021

I own 2, a 30 from 1979 and a NOS last batch 30M from 1990. both are reliable cameras. no problem with foam, no leaks. if you want more information about mine http://www.subcompactcam.com/16mm_kiev_30.htm

Cholentpot · Feb 3, 2021

I just bought another Kiev 30 on ebay for $18.

My current one is a bit loose and the flash sync doesn't work. It also has a massive light leak somewhere in there that I can't track down. After about a half dozen rolls through it I've given up and trying my luck with another copy.

xya · Feb 3, 2021

wise decision. seen the price of a new try...

Cholentpot · Feb 3, 2021

xya said:
wise decision. seen the price of a new try...

Not sure if it came with a cassette though. I'll know in a few months when the thing gets here I guess.

Sirius Glass · Feb 3, 2021

For a light easy to use [read box camera] the Fisher Price 110 camera was great for carrying in the pocket and taking photographs of my children, especially when we were skiing. The enlarged prices are priceless.

Cholentpot · Feb 3, 2021

Sirius Glass said:
For a light easy to use [read box camera] the Fisher Price 110 camera was great for carrying in the pocket and taking photographs of my children, especially when we were skiing. The enlarged prices are priceless.

Huh.

Says made by Kodak. You can vouch for these things? I wonder if they can take reloaded carts?

Sirius Glass · Feb 3, 2021

Cholentpot said:
Huh.

Says made by Kodak. You can vouch for these things? I wonder if they can take reloaded carts?

Yes, but I reloaded by going to the store and buying another cartridge.

Cholentpot · Feb 3, 2021

Sirius Glass said:
Yes, but I reloaded by going to the store and buying another cartridge.

You normal people crack me up.

Donald Qualls · Feb 4, 2021

Cholentpot said:
Huh.

Says made by Kodak. You can vouch for these things? I wonder if they can take reloaded carts?

Most of the "simple" 110 cameras (other than the ones that are smaller than the film cartridge) require the film perforations to unlock the shutter after advancing.

Cholentpot · Feb 4, 2021

Donald Qualls said:
Most of the "simple" 110 cameras (other than the ones that are smaller than the film cartridge) require the film perforations to unlock the shutter after advancing.

I've heard of taping down the feeler. I have a cheapo concorde or something that I can try it with.

Don_ih · Feb 4, 2021

Sirius Glass said:
he Fisher Price 110 camera was great for carrying in the pocket and taking photographs of my children

I had a Thomas the Tank Engine 110 camera when my oldest was a toddler. He shot a roll of pretty much blurry abstract light smears. It did take otherwise ok pictures - all with a little Thomas in the corner of the print.

Donald Qualls · Feb 4, 2021

Cholentpot said:
I've heard of taping down the feeler. I have a cheapo concorde or something that I can try it with.

That won't help, as I understand the feeler operation. It has to be allowed to rise and then pulled toward the takeup (both managed by the single perforation per frame in factory loaded film) to unlock the shutter in cameras that depend on it. It often also serves to lock the advance at the same time, so the pre-exposed frames line up with the film gate. With reloads, you don't have to worry about pre-exposed frames, so you can advance by the numbers on the (reused) backing -- but you still need the shutter to unlock, and many of the simpler cameras won't do this if the feeler isn't allowed to rise and pulled forward.

Cholentpot · Feb 4, 2021

Donald Qualls said:
That won't help, as I understand the feeler operation. It has to be allowed to rise and then pulled toward the takeup (both managed by the single perforation per frame in factory loaded film) to unlock the shutter in cameras that depend on it. It often also serves to lock the advance at the same time, so the pre-exposed frames line up with the film gate. With reloads, you don't have to worry about pre-exposed frames, so you can advance by the numbers on the (reused) backing -- but you still need the shutter to unlock, and many of the simpler cameras won't do this if the feeler isn't allowed to rise and pulled forward.

Time to invest in a tiny hole puncher.

Donald Qualls · Feb 4, 2021

There's been a long thread on Submini-L mailing list about this. Short version: it can be done, but not many folks have done it. It's far easier to find a camera that works with unperfed film (several of the top models do). You get better images, wider film choice, and only have to solve the problem of opening and reclosing a cartridge that was intended to be broken open for processing and thrown away afterward.

Cholentpot · Feb 4, 2021

Donald Qualls said:
There's been a long thread on Submini-L mailing list about this. Short version: it can be done, but not many folks have done it. It's far easier to find a camera that works with unperfed film (several of the top models do). You get better images, wider film choice, and only have to solve the problem of opening and reclosing a cartridge that was intended to be broken open for processing and thrown away afterward.

Guess I'll be sticking with the auto 110 and slit down 70mm

Donald Qualls · Feb 4, 2021

I just designed a slitter to cut three 15.9 mm strips from 120 -- 3D printable, held together with neodymium magnets, uses #11 blades. For 3D printing. Working out getting the right file exports for Thingiverse...

Cholentpot · Feb 4, 2021

Donald Qualls said:
I just designed a slitter to cut three 15.9 mm strips from 120 -- 3D printable, held together with neodymium magnets, uses #11 blades. For 3D printing. Working out getting the right file exports for Thingiverse...

I'm not in the 3D printing world but that sounds awesome.

Does it maintain the backing paper with each strip?

Donald Qualls · Feb 4, 2021

Yes, it does. Not that three strips of 120 backing are much good for anything we'd normally use 16mm film for.

I'm not in the 3D printing world, either -- yet! -- but I promised myself I'd learn to create parts before getting a printer, because why have it if I can only print downloads? Coming soon: an actual frame counter for a Recesky (aka Photodiox etc.) 35mm TLR kit-built camera. That plus decent lenses is all that camera lacks of being a proper simple camera.

Huss · Mar 13, 2021

Rollei A110, Lomo Tiger CN 200 with the signature Lomo 110 light leaks through the backing paper

Huss · Mar 13, 2021

Rollei A110, Lomo Tiger

110/16mm Camera Image Quality

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