Ηelp for my new camera - Zeiss Icon 9x12 plate camera

coll · Mar 20, 2022

Hello i m new here.
I found this forum on trying to find informations about a camera i recently bought.
I m realy amateur on this hobby.
Well it is about zeiss icon ideal B model 250/7
9x12.
I m trying to find a metal glass holder for this camera, but ebay sellers do not help me or they do not know to do it
Im not sure but i think the proper stuff is icon 726/7 holder.
Is this realy ok?
Can i use maybe another type from other firm ?
Is that holder proper for glass and film and is it possible to work this camera?
Everything on camera looks to work properly !
Thanks

Jojje · Mar 20, 2022

Coincidentally, today I photographed with the predecessor of your camera: ICA Ideal I refurbished. First time, test shots, not developed yet. I used holders that came with it, most seem to be French origin, "A.P. Paris". ICA 721/6 holder (that's laying on my desk) seems fitting but will not lock down properly, could be used with care, I think. Have more holders elsewhere, must investigate later. Holders require sheath inserts with sheet film, usually they are present.

coll · Mar 20, 2022

As member Ian Grand said somewhere, unforunately there is no data base.
So i hope an experienced to help me of choosing the proper plate holder , or to find it!

Thank you Jojje!

Javier González · Mar 20, 2022

I am afraid I can not help much. As said, there are many slightly different models, some will fit, some won't. I own a certotrop 9x12 and 5 plate holders: one zeiss Ikon 665/7 and 4 no name. I remember some ica holders that didn't fit in spite of being almost equal.

JNP · Mar 20, 2022

@coll sometimes ETSY sellers have these things, bon chance !

coll · Mar 21, 2022

Τhank you all!
But if somebody has the SAME camera(zeiss icon ideal 250/7)please let me know about what code glass holder do i iave to choose!
Thanks

Donald Qualls · Mar 21, 2022

I have one of these and an Ica 225 that use the same holders -- let me look when I'm home and see if there's a Zeiss or Ica item number on any of my plate holders.

coll · Mar 21, 2022

Great!
Firm and code number will be amazing!

Ps
I have a silly question about the functionality!
From the back place you have to see the idol upside down on the frost glass!
How is that possible as the diaphragm is closed?
Is there any way to keep it open?
I have not found anything....
Thanks
Sotiris

Donald Qualls · Mar 21, 2022

You focus and frame with the aperture wide open, then close the shutter (open on T while focusing) and close down the aperture to your chosen value, then verify the set shutter speed at "I" (or "B" if you're doing a hand-timed exposure, say several seconds) and correct speed set, before cocking the shutter for the exposure. Then fire the shutter once while watching it (with the dark slide still in) to assure yourself it's running as it should. This is all part of the "dance", the sequence of steps to make an image with large format cameras.

Jojje · Mar 21, 2022

In Ideal the setting is "Z" (Zeit). This may be helpful, too:
https://www.cameramanuals.org/prof_pdf/ideal-cameras.pdf

Andy38 · Mar 22, 2022

Hello,
Here is a pic of the 2 sides of the 9 x 12 "Ideal" plate holders : you can see they don't look like usual holders, with a pop-off system (https://www.collection-appareils.fr/x/html/page_standard_eng.php?id_appareil=2929)
They were made firstly by Huttig, then by Ica and at the end by Zeiss Ikon.

On the bottom, there is a septum, an adapter to insert for 9 x 12 film.

Donald Qualls · Mar 22, 2022

My twelve plate holders look just like that, right down to the arched top on the film sheaths (which goes on the bottom of the plate holder).

BTW, to load these, you would (in the dark) pull the dark slide almost all the way out, push the spring loaded latch (near edge of the leftmost holder) over to release the sheath, slip film into the sheath with the notch code upper right (so emulsion is up), then reinsert the sheath with the arched end away from the dark slide, then hold the latch and push down on the arched end to get the sheath under the latches. Flip the dark slide to "loaded" (these don't have white and black, but the folding of the grip has an orientation) and reinsert, then repeat for each holder you want to load.

PLEASE practice this in the light, sacrifice a sheet of film if you don't already have a scrap one. It's not hard to do, but can get tricky if you try it for the first time in the dark.

Also, if you're new to large format, the film comes in a black bag inside the box, but don't open the box in the light -- the bag can have holes. Some brands of film have intersheets -- thin paper between each film sheet. Don't; load the intersheets into the film sheath.

coll · Mar 22, 2022

Τhank you!
Yes i know that there are holders for plates and film with an adapter and tht was also given by icon as a set with the camera
Certainlly i need holder with dimention(10x16)cm or (61/2x 4)inches.
Unfortunately the practical problem is choose the correct one from the internet market!

coll · Mar 22, 2022

Just from a seller photo!
Some unbranded...some brands, with some codes or not at all!

coll · Mar 22, 2022

Thanks Donald!
Yes I m really new!
Yes i know that you need dark room for loading the plate to the holder, and maybe i will have some try for a picture.
But at first i have to choose and find my first plate holder.
And after glass plates as it is maybe easier

P.S
Sorry for my English

Donald Qualls · Mar 22, 2022

You can load the plate holders in a changing bag -- I've done it, with my first couple plate cameras, before I had a darkroom.

It might be easier to get some Zebra dry plates; they're made in Europe (Croatia?), just across the Adriatic. They're very slow (sunny conditions exposure will run around 1/5 to one second at f/16), but will fit directly into a plate holder without the film sheath, which means a couple fewer things to juggle in the dark. Not to mention they can be handled under red safelight, which will make both loading and development easier.

coll · Mar 22, 2022

Interesting!
What about Zebra dry plates code?
Anything special?
Just to be 9x12 format like the camera?

Ps
I think firstly i have to find just one metal holder!
Im really at the very beginning!
Any link for purchasing holdes or plates is wellcomed!

Donald Qualls · Mar 22, 2022

Here's the Zebra plates page (can't open it from my work computer, but I copied the URL). http://zebradryplates.com/

coll · Mar 22, 2022

Yes! It opens
4x5 or 8x10

Donald Qualls · Mar 22, 2022

Seriously? 9x12 was more common than 4x5 in Europe as recently as the 1970s, I'd expect more existing cameras for glass plates to be that size than 4x5 (that's still the case here in USA; lots of these were imported from the 1890s until the 1930s). J.Lane will make any size you like, but they're in the USA, shipping to Greece is likely to be cost-prohibitive, not to mention the fallout from breakage in transit. Maybe @Nodda Duma can suggest an alternative, or an e-mail to Zebra might find they can coat 9x12.

coll · Mar 22, 2022

Obviously i need 9x12
But finally i think i have bought the most difficult camera, to make it work!
Rare glass holder case, seldom glassses!!
I had to give more money, to take something completed!
Now it kills me ,and i do not find nothing no were!

Thank you all

Donald Qualls · Mar 22, 2022

A nearly century old antique in an obsolete format is surely not going to be the easiest to get into operation. If your interest in more in making photographs than in using a camera that was made before you parents (or perhaps grandparents) were born, you should probably sell that Ideal on and try to get a more modern, 4x5 camera -- perhaps an Intrepid, if you want a new field camera, or some other type that at least uses modern film holders and film.

coll · Mar 22, 2022

Well no!
I prefer the antique
Maybe i will never manage it to work, but i want it to be near that .
Already i bought a nice icon tripod, and im looking for a logical price for a shatter realise, and of course the glass holder
Iam in love with this camera as i feel also with many staff from the begining of the previous century

Well have look!
90 box is a forbiden price, but if this code number is real proper , i will try to find it again.
What do you think?
Thanks

(The seller kills but dont help about it being proper)

https://www.ebay.com/itm/275120551212

coll · Mar 22, 2022

The same code( 726/7) from a California seller!

https://www.ebay.com/itm/274936574451

Nodda Duma · Mar 22, 2022

Donald Qualls said:
Seriously? 9x12 was more common than 4x5 in Europe as recently as the 1970s, I'd expect more existing cameras for glass plates to be that size than 4x5 (that's still the case here in USA; lots of these were imported from the 1890s until the 1930s). J.Lane will make any size you like, but they're in the USA, shipping to Greece is likely to be cost-prohibitive, not to mention the fallout from breakage in transit. Maybe @Nodda Duma can suggest an alternative, or an e-mail to Zebra might find they can coat 9x12.

J Lane Dry Plates are made in the USA, but retailers are located around the world (a quick visit to the website would show this). I have a retailer in Dusseldorf who sells 9x12’s, and Fotoimpex will soon be stocking J Lane Dry Plates (ASA 2) and Speed Plates (ASA 25). As such, shipping to Greece would not be cost-prohibitive as it is shipped from with the EU.

Ηelp for my new camera - Zeiss Icon 9x12 plate camera

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