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Over Developing Delta 100 For More Contrast

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braxus

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Guys. Im about to develop some Ilford Delta 100 in 35mm. In Xtol straight (only gives times for straight), it says 7.5 minutes. Its warm in here by about 5 degrees more, so I'll have to reduce the time. But even if at 21 degrees C, if I wanted a little more contrast in the negative then normal, so how much longer then 7.5 minutes should I do it for? What do you recommend or that I should try?
 
I've found that Delta 100 builds contrast quickly (though I don't use XTOL, so it your experience may be different). Try a 10% increase in time?
 
Probably something like 15-25% extra time.

See what the Delta 100 tech sheet recommends for XTOL at EI200. Those sheets also have temp conversion times.

Kodak pub J-109 technically has what you are looking for (Delta 100 times for different contrast indexes at different temperatures, stock or 1+1).

Maybe split the difference between the Ilford and Kodak recommendations.

Don’t overthink it. Ballpark is plenty good enough. Or better yet just develop normally and increase contrast in printing / editing.


Guys. Im about to develop some Ilford Delta 100 in 35mm. In Xtol straight (only gives times for straight), it says 7.5 minutes. It’s warm in here by about 5 degrees more, so I'll have to reduce the time. But even if at 21 degrees C, if I wanted a little more contrast in the negative then normal, so how much longer then 7.5 minutes should I do it for? What do you recommend or that I should try?
 
The Film Developing Cookbook 1998 edition says:

Delta 100 in Xtol

asa 25/50. 6.75 min
100. 8 min
200. 9.5 min
400. 11.5 min

There are no temps in parentheses, so I assume these are times for 20 degrees celsius.
 
So I went with an extra 60 seconds, which makes it 8:30 at 20 degrees C. Because its 23 degrees inside, I finally went with 7 minutes developing time which was rounded off. Its slightly more time then needed for 22 degrees and 24 degrees was a big jump and its not that hot here. Its washing as we speak. I'll scan them up after it dries this evening.

Im developing other rolls today too, as its been neglected for many months.
 
Guys. Im about to develop some Ilford Delta 100 in 35mm. In Xtol straight (only gives times for straight), it says 7.5 minutes. Its warm in here by about 5 degrees more, so I'll have to reduce the time. But even if at 21 degrees C, if I wanted a little more contrast in the negative then normal, so how much longer then 7.5 minutes should I do it for? What do you recommend or that I should try?














=+10-20%
 
Braxus, In my world it would depend on the dynamic light range of the scene. My standarad developer is Pyrocat HD.....& I've never been at a loss for contrast with either Delta 100 or Tmax 100.
 
So I went with an extra 60 seconds, which makes it 8:30 at 20 degrees C. Because its 23 degrees inside, I finally went with 7 minutes developing time which was rounded off. Its slightly more time then needed for 22 degrees and 24 degrees was a big jump and its not that hot here. Its washing as we speak. I'll scan them up after it dries this evening.

Im developing other rolls today too, as its been neglected for many months.

Looking forward to hearing how it went!
 
Well you guys were right. This film builds up contrast reel quick when over developed. I shot some shots already in high contrast lighting, and the highlights were blown out in some shots. Some shots looked good and the look reminded me of Delta 400 and Tri-X as far as contrast in concerned. But I think I over did it with this roll. Lesson learned. Next time I shoot some sheets of this, I'll develop as normal. It definately is a sharper film then TMAX 100, which Andy here mentioned. Some shots were quite nice, with not as flat a look as a normal roll would look like to me. But this film seems to still lack a lot of midtone definition compared to other films like Plus X and Efke 25. I'll play some more down the road with another roll. I still want to give this film a chance, but its not blowing me away either. Todays shots were better, if it weren't for the highlights being overcooked.
 

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the highlights were blown out in some shots
That's highly unlikely, but it's common for highlights in film scans to blow out. The key to avoiding this is in better control of the scanning process.

Since you're scanning, the concept of overdevelopment for increased contrast is also kind of moot. You can make whatever contrast adjustments you need in digital space. On the negatives, the only thing you need is a full range of tones in all relevant parts of the images. This is mostly a matter of giving sufficient exposure so as to capture sufficient shadow detail, without going overboard and pushing highlights onto the shoulder so they start losing differentiation. The loss of highlight separation on a film like Delta 100 is far less likely and problematic than the loss of shadow separation.

But this film seems to still lack a lot of midtone definition compared to other films like Plus X and Efke 25.
I'd look in the direction of subject matter and lighting conditions for this.
Note that if you want to really boost midtone contrast, it will by default come at the expense of contrast in shadows and/or highlights - unless of course you selectively adjust parts of individual images (i.e. split grade printing with burning & dodging, or in digital space selectively editing using e.g. contrast adjustment layers with masks).

I have a feeling you're looking in the wrong directions for the aspects you're trying to optimize. A compounding problem is likely a somewhat fuzzy concept of what is being optimized to begin with; i.e. what objectively speaking does "midtone definition" mean to you? What does it look like, curve-wise, and/or can you show an example so we can together work out what's happening in it, curve-wise?
 
Since you're scanning, the concept of overdevelopment for increased contrast is also kind of moot.

That's not moot at all. If you know what you're doing, manipulating contrast chemically leads to different results than manipulating it digitally for a number of reasons that you probably know already. I have been doing it regularly and reliably for years.

You can make whatever contrast adjustments you need in digital space.

In my experience, and in my preference, slight modulation of negative density via control of exposure and development always leads to better results than fixed exposure+development followed by stretching and compressing histograms in PS, even when done on 16bit/channel scans.

Also, and I know this is difficult to accept or understand for people who print their film, even when the final purpose is a digital image, many people are into film photography because it's fun to understand and manipulate any effect that chemistry, agitation, exposure choices have on the result - rather than endlessly tweaking stuff with sliders in front of a monitor.
 
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As @braxus is probably using some of the developing equipment he got from me, I probably should chime in :smile:.
I happen to know that the OP comes from a long history of working in labs, with good quality but still automated equipment.
So I understand a bit where he is coming from.
I personally prefer to lean toward adjusting the film, exposure and development to achieve a set of results first, and then add the digital manipulation to suit that presentation medium, but I am greatly influenced by the fact that I also print in a darkroom.
I will say though, we really cannot come to any conclusions about the negatives themselves, without seeing a backlit image of those negatives or, in a better world, actually see them in the flesh.
The scans tell us very little other than you can get scans that display like that from them.
 
I'm curious how much the ambient temperature matters? If you pour a 500 or 1000ml pitcher of water at 20 degrees celsius, how fast does it climb above that?
 
@braxus, a few notes in the hope of helping with your original question, and some specifics on why modulating development can be a legitimate tool even when scanning. Developing longer it changes the image in ways that are qualitatively different from a digital correction. Not impossible to approximate digitally, but requiring a combination of techniques and precision that goes beyond dragging a slider. Three mechanisms are at work:

1. Signal-to-noise at the scanner. Your scanner's sensor has a fixed noise floor, mostly thermal noise in the electronics and statistical noise from photon counting. These are always there at the same magnitude regardless of what negative you put in. Now: what does this have to do with contrast? A low-contrast negative has smaller density differences between adjacent tones. Smaller density differences mean smaller differences in the amount of light reaching the sensor, which means smaller electrical signal differences between those tones. But the noise hasn't changed, so the ratio of "useful tonal difference" to "random noise" gets worse. When you then stretch that compressed histogram digitally to restore contrast, you amplify signal and noise by the same factor. The noise can become visible.

Developing to higher contrast does something different: it increases the density spacing between tones on the film, before it ever reaches the scanner. Larger density differences mean larger signal differences at the sensor. You don't need to stretch afterward, or you need to stretch less, so you don't amplify noise, or you amplify it less.

Could you fix this digitally? Noise reduction software exists, but it works by discarding information (smoothing), trading detail for cleanliness. Chemical contrast gives you the separation without that trade-off. Also noise reduction software often costs money and time and requires you to waste more time after, in front of a computer.

2. Development reshapes the curve (instead of simply stretching it it). The H/D characteristic curve doesn't respond uniformly to development time. The toe is nearly development-invariant, being governed primarily by exposure and not by how long the film sits in the tank. The straight-line section (midtones) instead, steepens in slope with increased development, and the shoulder (highlights) extends. So N+1 development redistributes tonal information non-uniformly: you gain midtone and highlight separation while shadows stay largely where they were. This can have important creative/visual impact on your image if you know what you're doing and it achieves the desired visual effect.

Could you replicate this redistribution with a carefully shaped non-linear curve applied digitally? In principle yes, but you'd need precise knowledge of the film's characteristic curves at both N and N+1 to calculate the correct transform, and you'd be applying it to data that already has worse signal-to-noise (back to point 1). It's not something you eyeball with a curves tool, but a calculated transform applied to inferior data.

3. Adjacency effects. At boundaries between differently exposed areas, developer exhausts faster on the heavily-exposed side while reaction byproducts (bromide) accumulate there. Fresh developer migrates laterally from the less-exposed side. The result is local density enhancement at edges: micro-contrast that depends on the spatial neighbourhood (as opposed to depending just on the tone of a given point). More development time means more time for this lateral diffusion to operate, so the effect strengthens with push development. The magnitude scales with the exposure difference across the boundary. High-contrast edges get stronger enhancement than subtle gradations. This is entirely spatial and scene-dependent. A curves adjustment doesn't touch it at all. Unsharp masking approximates the idea, but it operates uniformly on all edges regardless of their photographic origin, so it's a blunter instrument.

In short: could a skilled digital operator approximate the aggregate result, noise-managed data, non-uniform tonal redistribution, exposure-dependent edge enhancement, using luminosity masks, zone-targeted curves, noise reduction, and tuned local sharpening? Probably. But that's a stack of corrective techniques applied after the fact to worse source data. One decision in the tank gives you a coherent result that addresses all three simultaneously.

And more to the point: why would you? Many of us shoot film precisely because the process between exposure and image is rich, physical, and manipulable. You have this fascinating chemical variable sitting right there: development time, temperature, agitation, dilution, each one shaping the image in coherent, predictable ways. Trading that for an hour of tedious computer work is a strange bargain IMHO

But to go back on topic, and for your practical situation @braxus. Others in the thread have given you good starting points on times and dilutions. The one thing I'd stress is: before you start tweaking development for contrast, make sure your temperature control is tight. Development rate roughly doubles every 10°C, so even a 2°C drift during processing is a ~10–15% variation in effective development. Enough to mask the difference between N and N+0.5. Get a reliable thermometer, measure immediately before pouring, and temper the tank if your room is unstable.

Once your baseline is repeatable, then the contrast adjustments will show up cleanly in your scans and you'll be able to dial them in.
 
@braxus, you'll need to find a development time (and EI) that works for you under different subject luminance ranges. The examples you show appear to be of normal to a bit high SLR's. Just like EI's, development times are personal. Start testing!
 
It definately is a sharper film then TMAX 100, which Andy here mentioned.

Whoa! That noon train has just stopped at Hadleyville and Tex Ritter is singing. I hope Grace Kelly is ready to stand by you when the shooting starts 😎

pentaxuser
 
What do you mean by sharper? In common developers, D100 has better edge acutance than TMX, but not quite as much detail. With the kind of special developing I use, TMX excels in both categories, and I'd place D100 about midway between TMX100 and TMY400.
 
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