Toyo VX125 Vs Toyo 45A/AII

[Howie1922]

Hey Everyone!

I've been using a Calumet CC-400 as my 4x5 kit and I'm looking to upgrade to something more portable. I love the CC-400's movements but it's heavy, bulky, and really struggles with wide angle lenses. It also does not have a graflock back which really annoys me; I actually ended up designing and 3D printing a replacement back with Graflock clips just to work around it.

The two systems that have caught my eye are the Toyo VX125 and the Toyo 45A/AII. Does anyone have hands-on experience with both and a preference between them? I'm leaning toward the VX125, but the 45A/AII would probably save me a decent amount of money. Specs for both are below.

I mostly take landscape photos, with the occasional macro shot or portrait. I have a 127mm f/4.7 Polaroid 110a lens, a 150mm f/6.3 Fuji lens, and a 215mm f/6.3 Caltar lens. I will probably also get a 90mm at some point.

What ultimately matters most to me: portability, solid movements (geared rise/fall would be great), and a Graflock back out of the box. Thanks!

Spec	Toyo VX125	Toyo 45A / AII	Calumet CC-400
Overview
Type	Hybrid monorail/field	Folding field	Monorail studio
Format	4×5	4×5	4×5
Construction	Duralumin alloy	All-metal alloy	Aluminium
⚖ Weight & size
Weight	~5.5–5.9 lbs	~6 lbs	~10–11 lbs
Folded / packed size	12×9×5" (telescoping monorail)	8.2×7.4×4.2"	20" rail — not field-portable
Portability	Field + studio	Best for field	Studio only
↕ Front movements
Rise	70mm geared	20.5mm manual	3" (76mm) geared
Fall	None (use rear rise)	23.5mm manual	1" (25mm) geared
Shift	40+30mm geared	7mm manual (40mm w/ bed shift)	22mm each direction
Tilt	±25° yaw-free base tilt	90° fwd / 15° rear	±30° center-axis
Swing	±25°	±8°	±12°
↔ Rear movements
Rise / Fall	Rise 70mm geared	None	None
Shift	40+30mm geared	None	Manual
Tilt	±25°	90° fwd / 15° rear	±30° center-axis
Swing	±25°	±8°	±12°
Bellows & focus
Bellows extension	67–327mm (w/ ext. pipe)	~320–324mm	16" (406mm)
Min lens (flat board)	58mm	~90mm practical (45mm w/ drop bed)	~90mm
Max lens	300mm (400mm telephoto)	360mm	400mm+
Focus control	Fully geared, front & rear	Rack & pinion front	Friction / rack & pinion
Back & accessories
Film back	360° revolving, non-vignetting	360° revolving (Graflok)	Rotating (landscape/portrait only)
Graflok compatible	Yes	Yes	No
Lensboard size	158mm Toyo studio	110mm Toyo field	4" square
Modular system	Yes (Toyo G/GX)	Partial (Toyo accessories)	Limited
Spirit levels	Bi-axial front & rear	Single	Single

 

[John Wiegerink]

For the lenses you have and the type of photography you do any of those cameras would work. I find that I use my Toyo (older model) much, much more than a monorail camera and still have all the movements I need for the type photography I do. One of the reasons I use the old Toyo more is the speed with which I can set it up and the portability it offers over a monorail camera. I also have a Chamonix 4X5, but that's much more than you'd probably want to spend. Even having the Chamonix camera, I find myself using the older Toyo more than the newer Chamonix 4X5. Toyo field cameras are noting to laugh at and their prices are sky-high.

 

[xkaes]

I agree with John. I'd look at the Toyo 45A, but since you're considering folders, there are others with Graflox backs, such as the Wista DX-III -- it's lighter and probably less expensive. Here's a list:

https://www.subclub.org/toko/4x5table.htm

 

[John Wiegerink]

I agree with John. I'd look at the Toyo 45A, but since you're considering folders, there are others with Graflox backs, such as the Wista DX-III -- it's lighter and probably less expensive. Here's a list:

https://www.subclub.org/toko/4x5table.htm

Yes, you are so right when it comes to field cameras. Wista, Toyo, Horseman, Linholf, Rittreck, Toko, and many wood field cameras. Heck, even a Crown Graphic 4X5 makes a dandy field camera.

 

[abruzzi]

I don't have the VX125, but I have its baby brother, the VX23D. It is a beautiful piece of engineering. Its starts as a kind of Sinar clone system--cylindrical rail, ungeared carriers that slide and clamp on the rail, then geared fine focus on each carrier. Then they modified that to make a collapsible rail that is very light and exapnds from something like 5 inches to almost 12 inches (rail expands, add 1 inch endcaps, slide the carriers to the end and use the fine focus to move the carrier as far apart as possible.) You can add larger rails to get much more distance, but that gets you most of what you might need.

The really big difference between the VX125 and 45A is monorail vs technical camera. Many people are fine with tech cameras or wood folders, but LF never clicked for me until I got a monorail, so now I'm pretty much 100% monorail from 6x9 medium format (and a digital back as well) up to 8x10. I'm a field camera so I gravitate to collapsible field monorails, and some of my cameras push the "monorail" designation a bit, especially with movements in the rear, but they still feel much more comfortable to use than my first two cameras which I hated (Shen Hao HZX45 and Linhof Technika.)

(also not that the VX125 came in several versions. Some did not have geared rise and shift, some did, and some came in a non-collapsible monorail.)

 

[isaac7]

I don't have the VX125, but I have its baby brother, the VX23D. It is a beautiful piece of engineering. Its starts as a kind of Sinar clone system--cylindrical rail, ungeared carriers that slide and clamp on the rail, then geared fine focus on each carrier. Then they modified that to make a collapsible rail that is very light and exapnds from something like 5 inches to almost 12 inches (rail expands, add 1 inch endcaps, slide the carriers to the end and use the fine focus to move the carrier as far apart as possible.) You can add larger rails to get much more distance, but that gets you most of what you might need.

The really big difference between the VX125 and 45A is monorail vs technical camera. Many people are fine with tech cameras or wood folders, but LF never clicked for me until I got a monorail, so now I'm pretty much 100% monorail from 6x9 medium format (and a digital back as well) up to 8x10. I'm a field camera so I gravitate to collapsible field monorails, and some of my cameras push the "monorail" designation a bit, especially with movements in the rear, but they still feel much more comfortable to use than my first two cameras which I hated (Shen Hao HZX45 and Linhof Technika.)

(also not that the VX125 came in several versions. Some did not have geared rise and shift, some did, and some came in a non-collapsible monorail.)

I really liked my Horeseman LE. It was pretty easy to breakdown and carry. Was rigid and had some geared movements. In college I shot with a Calumat monorail and that was a pain to lug around. Used a Crown Graphic a bit too. The Crown was fine for a lot of stuff but I did appreciate using a monorail shooting flowers in my yard.

 

[John Wiegerink]

I really liked my Horeseman LE. It was pretty easy to breakdown and carry. Was rigid and had some geared movements. In college I shot with a Calumat monorail and that was a pain to lug around. Used a Crown Graphic a bit too. The Crown was fine for a lot of stuff but I did appreciate using a monorail shooting flowers in my yard.

If I were to get another monorail it would be the Horseman LE for sure. I like the way it breaks down and sets backup, fast and easy. But not in the market since I have an old Calumet monorail if I really need more movements and my Chamonix 4X5 and Toyo 4X5 are what I use 99% of the time anyway.

 

[RalphLambrecht]

Hey Everyone!

I've been using a Calumet CC-400 as my 4x5 kit and I'm looking to upgrade to something more portable. I love the CC-400's movements but it's heavy, bulky, and really struggles with wide angle lenses. It also does not have a graflock back which really annoys me; I actually ended up designing and 3D printing a replacement back with Graflock clips just to work around it.

The two systems that have caught my eye are the Toyo VX125 and the Toyo 45A/AII. Does anyone have hands-on experience with both and a preference between them? I'm leaning toward the VX125, but the 45A/AII would probably save me a decent amount of money. Specs for both are below.

I mostly take landscape photos, with the occasional macro shot or portrait. I have a 127mm f/4.7 Polaroid 110a lens, a 150mm f/6.3 Fuji lens, and a 215mm f/6.3 Caltar lens. I will probably also get a 90mm at some point.

What ultimately matters most to me: portability, solid movements (geared rise/fall would be great), and a Graflock back out of the box. Thanks!

Spec	Toyo VX125	Toyo 45A / AII	Calumet CC-400
Overview
Type	Hybrid monorail/field	Folding field	Monorail studio
Format	4×5	4×5	4×5
Construction	Duralumin alloy	All-metal alloy	Aluminium
⚖ Weight & size
Weight	~5.5–5.9 lbs	~6 lbs	~10–11 lbs
Folded / packed size	12×9×5" (telescoping monorail)	8.2×7.4×4.2"	20" rail — not field-portable
Portability	Field + studio	Best for field	Studio only
↕ Front movements
Rise	70mm geared	20.5mm manual	3" (76mm) geared
Fall	None (use rear rise)	23.5mm manual	1" (25mm) geared
Shift	40+30mm geared	7mm manual (40mm w/ bed shift)	22mm each direction
Tilt	±25° yaw-free base tilt	90° fwd / 15° rear	±30° center-axis
Swing	±25°	±8°	±12°
↔ Rear movements
Rise / Fall	Rise 70mm geared	None	None
Shift	40+30mm geared	None	Manual
Tilt	±25°	90° fwd / 15° rear	±30° center-axis
Swing	±25°	±8°	±12°
Bellows & focus
Bellows extension	67–327mm (w/ ext. pipe)	~320–324mm	16" (406mm)
Min lens (flat board)	58mm	~90mm practical (45mm w/ drop bed)	~90mm
Max lens	300mm (400mm telephoto)	360mm	400mm+
Focus control	Fully geared, front & rear	Rack & pinion front	Friction / rack & pinion
Back & accessories
Film back	360° revolving, non-vignetting	360° revolving (Graflok)	Rotating (landscape/portrait only)
Graflok compatible	Yes	Yes	No
Lensboard size	158mm Toyo studio	110mm Toyo field	4" square
Modular system	Yes (Toyo G/GX)	Partial (Toyo accessories)	Limited
Spirit levels	Bi-axial front & rear	Single	Single

I got a Toyo45A and I'm happy with it

 

[MARTIE]

I've always fancied a Toyo VX125, preferably jade green, but you can't have them all.

I love my Technika but if I were to only have 1 camera, it wouldn't be a clamshell design. I find them too fiddly for movements. And the front bed can get in the way with wide angle lenses.

 

[xkaes]

There are plenty of folders that allow forward movement of the rear standard -- and negate the wide-angle problem.

 

[Howie1922]

Thanks for all the input everyone!

I should have specified this in my original post, but I also wanted to do a metal camera instead of a wooden camera. I like the way they look and feel. I might look a little more into the Horseman LE in the background.

I have a lead on a Toyo VX125R at a great price currently, so hopefully that pans out!

 

[abruzzi]

As I understand it, the R lacks the collapsible rail and the geared rise, though I've seen mismatched ones in the past. I'm sure its still a great camera without those features though. Geared rise is easy to identify from even a photo:

If one side of the standard has the double knob, then the rise is geared. If both sides have a single knob, it doesn't have geared rise:

The collapsible rail should be easy to check out. It should open wide like this:

One other thing to note--there are inch long rail extensions for each end. They look like this when removed:

I think they only came with the collapsible rail. The chart above says max extension is 327mm, but that seems high. I thought it was closer to 280mm with these two little extensions. (you could get larger extensions as well.) Anyway, with the collapsible rail, if it doesn't have those extensions, you'll effectively lose 50mm max, and they seem to be unobtanium by themselves (there are three VX125 s on eBay at the moment--one doesn't have a collapsible rail, one has it with extensions, and one has it without extensions.)

Anyway, that is all I know from my experience with a VX23D and a longtime lust for a VX125.

 

[Howie1922]

As I understand it, the R lacks the collapsible rail and the geared rise, though I've seen mismatched ones in the past. I'm sure its still a great camera without those features though. Geared rise is easy to identify from even a photo:

View attachment 426522

If one side of the standard has the double knob, then the rise is geared. If both sides have a single knob, it doesn't have geared rise:

View attachment 426523

The collapsible rail should be easy to check out. It should open wide like this:

View attachment 426524

One other thing to note--there are inch long rail extensions for each end. They look like this when removed:

View attachment 426525

I think they only came with the collapsible rail. The chart above says max extension is 327mm, but that seems high. I thought it was closer to 280mm with these two little extensions. (you could get larger extensions as well.) Anyway, with the collapsible rail, if it doesn't have those extensions, you'll effectively lose 50mm max, and they seem to be unobtanium by themselves (there are three VX125 s on eBay at the moment--one doesn't have a collapsible rail, one has it with extensions, and one has it without extensions.)

Anyway, that is all I know from my experience with a VX23D and a longtime lust for a VX125.

Looks like it has a non-geared front standard, and a non-collapsable rail. It comes with the two end pieces, a short rail, and a longer rail. Comes with a compendium lens shade too!

 

[abruzzi]

it looks like instead of the collapsible rail it still has a short piece, with a long added extension. That still makes it relatively packable. to me the geared rise wouldn't be as valuable as geared tilt (which none of them have). If the price is good, I'd still take it seriously. You can get a full model from Japan on eBay for about $2k (with extendable rail and geared rise) so keep that in mind.

 

[Chuck1]

I'd jump on that(depending on the price).
The horseman is nice, rock solid, but far from light.
Good luck

 

[John Wiegerink]

I'd jump on that(depending on the price).
The horseman is nice, rock solid, but far from light.
Good luck

Yes, for sure the horseman is no feather weight, but like you said, it's well built. I wonder what the weight difference is between the Horseman and the VX125?

 

[Besk]

I have a VX125 without the extendable rail. Geared rise. Just about mint. I am planning on selling it - just don't know a fair price.
Let me know what you are interested in - dimensions weight etc.

This one is green. With Technika style lensboard adapter. Original bellow. Also a neat leather bellows for wide angles.

 

[Howie1922]

I decided to take the leap and I purchased the camera , $750 + some additional shipping charges. It gets here next week sometime. I’m excited!

 

[Chuck1]

That's a deal, enjoy

 

[abruzzi]

yeah, I'd have bought it at that price. Under $1k US would be great deal.

 

[MARTIE]

Bargain.