Surge marks on CN film?

[mshchem]

Is the fixer concentrate clear, no sulfur flakes? No strong smell of rotten eggs??

 

[mshchem]

This is the Kodak I have in stock .I also have Fuji Universal fixer, I use for everything, with Fuji stuff I fix for 5 minutes.

 

[mshchem]

Thanks for the response @mshchem

I am using flexicolor 9047 RA fixer and fixed for 2:30 with constant agitation at 100F

Yes, that's the right fixer.

 

[originalwinslow]

Hmmm, are you using it one time (I use it one shot but in a Jobo scheme)? Check dilution?? That looks exactly like what I have seen when I used the wrong dilution.

T-Grain films just beat the daylights out of fixer.

You can still try refixing this to see if it improves. Also if you have a bottle of Ilford rapid fixer you can try that. It's perplexing for sure.

In this case the fixer was freshly mixed. Kodak rep told me the capacity was 20-25 rolls per liter if replenished with minimal crossover. Mix dictates 20L water to 5L of concentrate which would be 200ml of concentrate for 1L of working solution.

However, now I'm looking at the bottle and do not see an RA tag, which is strange because when I contacted the rep about clearing time and specifically mentioned I was using the 9047 fixer (which was stated on the invoice) he said that clear time was 1 minute @98F...but maybe there has been a mixup and this is not actually RA fixer.

KODAK PHOTO SYSTEMS

KODAK PHOTO SYSTEMS Photographic Chemistry and Imaging Solutions

kodak.photosys.com

When you click the data sheet it refers to RA fixer. Irregardless, I think things have gotten confused and I've been running on bad information. I think I have standard C-41 fixer which should need 5+ minutes of fix time.

If I run the dried negs through the fix again should I see an improvement?

 

[MattKing]

That fixer is fairly old - from mid 2020 or earlier.

 

[originalwinslow]

That fixer is fairly old - from mid 2020 or earlier.

I bought it directly from the manufacturer about 2 months ago.

*Edit: Actually it was 5 months ago. Time flies.

 

[mshchem]

That fixer is fairly old - from mid 2020 or earlier.

Mine not @originalwinslow

I think dilution is the issue. If this is a drop in replacement for what I have this should be diluted 1+1, 5L of concentrate with enough water to make 10 L.

I use 200mL per liter for C41 with standard C41 fixer concentrate like the Fujifilm universal

 

[mshchem]

I bought it directly from the manufacturer about 2 months ago.

*Edit: Actually it was 5 months ago. Time flies.

Yeah, you've got the right stuff, I think it's the dilution.

 

[mshchem]

That fixer is fairly old - from mid 2020 or earlier.

Yep, and it's still in good shape. This was the last that Unique Photo had.

 

[MattKing]

I bought it directly from the manufacturer about 2 months ago.

*Edit: Actually it was 5 months ago. Time flies.

The current manufacturer isn't Kodak Alaris or Sino Promise.
Since last year it has been the USA licensee, Photo Systems.
And Sino Promise doesn't even have that name any more.

 

[MattKing]

Yep, and it's still in good shape. This was the last that Unique Photo had.

Or at least a batch that you happen to have has survived okay for the last several years.

 

[originalwinslow]

Mine not @originalwinslow

I think dilution is the issue. If this is a drop in replacement for what I have this should be diluted 1+1, 5L of concentrate with enough water to make 10 L.

I use 200mL per liter for C41 with standard C41 fixer concentrate like the Fujifilm universal

The dilution stated on the bottle says 20L water to 5L of concentrate, and I do believe this is the kodak version of your fuji fixer. The bottle does not indicate that it is RA fixer.

 

[mshchem]

Color Negative RA Fixer and Replenisher, To Make 2 x 10L (20 Liters)

Labs worldwide have long relied on Kodak chemicals for their extremely high quality, lower replenishment rates, and cost effectiveness. Kodak Color Negative RA Fixer and Replenisher is is used to make the emulsion permanent on a color negative and also to replenish exhausted fixer used in...

cinestillfilm.com

This is the stuff. Each 5 liter bottle makes 10L working solution. The dilution that the rep has told @originalwinslow is for the regular strength C41 fixer.

 

[mshchem]

The dilution stated on the bottle says 20L water to 5L of concentrate, and I do believe this is the kodak version of your fuji fixer. The bottle does not indicate that it is RA fixer.

Probably the case. The regular strength Fuji Universal fixer is diluted 1+4 for color negative film and 1+9 for E6.

 

[mshchem]

If you actually have the RA version it should be diluted 1+1. Very confusing and difficult, the proper paperwork for use isn't in place.

 

[mshchem]

The dilution stated on the bottle says 20L water to 5L of concentrate, and I do believe this is the kodak version of your fuji fixer. The bottle does not indicate that it is RA fixer.

Yep, I think that's the case. The regular fixer is 5L + 20L of water.

Bottom line I'd fix for at least 5 minutes with Portra. And I'd replenish the fixer after each run.

 

[originalwinslow]

I think we may have gotten to the bottom of this.

Thanks a lot @mshchem, I had previously considered that under-fixing was the culprit but was running on the assumption I had the RA. Fix times/dilution seemed fine under that assumption, now not so much.

Tomorrow will be the test to see if this resolves!

 

[mshchem]

I think we may have gotten to the bottom of this.

Thanks a lot @mshchem, I had previously considered that under-fixing was the culprit but was running on the assumption I had the RA. Fix times/dilution seemed fine under that assumption, now not so much.

Tomorrow will be the test to see if this resolves!

I hope it's the answer. This stuff needs proper documentation. The only real documentation is the old Eastman Kodak manuals.

Kodak Technical Documents • 125px

Not sure if Cinestill could share this with EK or PSI authorization??

 

[originalwinslow]

I hope it's the answer. This stuff needs proper documentation. The only real documentation is the old Eastman Kodak manuals.

Kodak Technical Documents • 125px

Not sure if Cinestill could share this with EK or PSI authorization??

Yes it is frustrating. Hence why I was forced to contact the manufacturer directly regarding clearing times/capacity and was ultimately given bad info. There is absolutely no official documentation online and nothing comes in the box.

 

[MattKing]

Yes it is frustrating. Hence why I was forced to contact the manufacturer directly regarding clearing times/capacity and was ultimately given bad info. There is absolutely no official documentation online and nothing comes in the box.

For clarity - the manufacturer of your product hasn't been in the business for a long time now.
The current manufacturer's information may have some relevance, and may very well be based on their efforts to replace old product with modern materials that perform the same way as the old materials did when new - thus making the old documentation relevant - but the age of that old product makes it difficult to reliably apply the existing information to it.

 

[mshchem]

Yes it is frustrating. Hence why I was forced to contact the manufacturer directly regarding clearing times/capacity and was ultimately given bad info. There is absolutely no official documentation online and nothing comes in the box.

Typical. Fuji is similar. I guess they figure if you are buying the actual stuff you're in the know, which isn't always the situation. Most of the minilabs these days use the cartridges which is really "dumbing it down" .

When I was a kid I got a bunch of Ektachrome E-3 chemistry. Absolutely no documentation, I wrote a letter to Kodak, it must have been well received as I got probably 100 Xerox copies of literature from Rochester. The good old days .

 

[mshchem]

For clarity - the manufacturer of your product hasn't been in the business for a long time now.
The current manufacturer's information may have some relevance, and may very well be based on their efforts to replace old product with modern materials that perform the same way as the old materials did when new - thus making the old documentation relevant - but the age of that old product makes it difficult to reliably apply the existing information to it.

Cinestill has both C41 fixer formulas listed online

 

[mshchem]

For clarity - the manufacturer of your product hasn't been in the business for a long time now.
The current manufacturer's information may have some relevance, and may very well be based on their efforts to replace old product with modern materials that perform the same way as the old materials did when new - thus making the old documentation relevant - but the age of that old product makes it difficult to reliably apply the existing information to it.

His or mine?

My bottle is at least 5 years old. From the Pandemic crash.

 

[originalwinslow]

For clarity - the manufacturer of your product hasn't been in the business for a long time now.
The current manufacturer's information may have some relevance, and may very well be based on their efforts to replace old product with modern materials that perform the same way as the old materials did when new - thus making the old documentation relevant - but the age of that old product makes it difficult to reliably apply the existing information to it.

I'm a bit confused here. Kodak decided to restart their chemical business and outsourced their chemical manufacturing to Photo Systems who have a license to produce chemical products using EK patents. The products themselves are currently being manufactured and are "modern." I was told by the head engineer that they are producing thousands of gallons a month.

Just saying it wouldn't kill them to include some basic processing info in the box.

 

[mshchem]

I'm a bit confused here. Kodak decided to restart their chemical business and outsourced their chemical manufacturing to Photo Systems who have a license to produce chemical products using EK patents. The products themselves are currently being manufactured and are "modern." I was told by the head engineer that they are producing thousands of gallons a month.

Just saying it wouldn't kill them to include some basic processing info in the box.

Yep.

I think that PSI could be helping out Ilford too. I mixed up a 5L batch of made in USA Ilford Bromophen this afternoon. Looks good. No instructions on mixing on the package Did have a web address for Ilford.