Mamiya C220 B/W photography. Filters?

[Waltherl]

I would love to start a series of portraits (street/studio) in B/W with the C220. As I only have the 80mm lens set I do think I have to get creative and was looking into coloured filters for B/W photography. I believe the taking lens has a filter thread of 49mm and was wondering where I can get decent filters (in Europe pref. because of shipping costs) and which colours I really need to have.

For future needs I was also looking into 105mm and 135mm lenses. Which would be affordable an best suited for portraits?

I am very curious to other tips/tricks etc. as well... very new to this camera.

 

[runswithsizzers]

I believe the taking lens has a filter thread of 49mm

As I recall, the filter threads on my loaner C220 with an 80mm lens was 46mm. But with a 46mm-to-49mm step-up ring. I was able to use my 49mm filters on that camera.

The only filters I ever used with that camera were yellow or orange, but I was shooting mostly out of doors, and never portraits, so you may want something else.

I found this thread which adds a bit more information:

Mamiya C220 Pro 80mm lens with filter thread step-up ring?

I am using a Mamiya C220 Professional TLR camera which has the black 80mm f2.8 lens with a Seiko shutter. Based on published specifications and my measurement, I am almost certain the filter threads on the front of this lens are 46mm. I would like to use some b&w contrast filters on the taking...

www.photrio.com

 

[runswithsizzers]

I am very curious to other tips/tricks etc. as well... very new to this camera.

If you haven't already done so, be sure to download the owner's manual and read it.

Mamiya C220 / Mamiya C220 F, professional instruction manual, user manual, pdf manuals

Mamiya C220 / Mamiya C220F instruction manual

www.butkus.org

or: https://dn710000.ca.archive.org/0/items/manualzilla-id-7009930/7009930_text.pdf

 

[bernard_L]

the filter threads on my loaner C220 with an 80mm lens was 46mm

Confirmed

 

[bernard_L]

As I only have the 80mm lens set I do think I have to get creative and was looking into coloured filters for B/W photography.

I do think I have to get creative

Focal length and filtering are completely distinct issues, i.e. filtering can't make up for a non-ideal focal length. This said:

• 80mm should be OK for shoulders-and-head portraits; of course, the bellows of the C220 allow tighter crops, but beware of "big-nose" effect.
• For tight portraits, the 135 would be more appropriate
• IMO, for portraits, the best opportunities for creativity are:
  • lighting
  • good contact with the subject; in that respect a TLR is better than SLR/RF; even better if you have camera on tripod, cable release, and can interact with model without interference from camera.
• From reading (no personal experience) yellow filter will attenuate skin defects, blue filter will accentuate them (gives character for male portraits).

 

[Dan Daniel]

I would love to start a series of portraits (street/studio) in B/W with the C220. As I only have the 80mm lens set I do think I have to get creative and was looking into coloured filters for B/W photography. I believe the taking lens has a filter thread of 49mm and was wondering where I can get decent filters (in Europe pref. because of shipping costs) and which colours I really need to have.

For future needs I was also looking into 105mm and 135mm lenses. Which would be affordable an best suited for portraits?

I am very curious to other tips/tricks etc. as well... very new to this camera.

A few filter things- look into the filter threads on possible future purchases. Maybe another Mamiya lens uses 49 or larger. Think about, as mentioned already, using an adapter ring to use larger filters on the 80mm to save having to repurchases filters.

Filters cut light, which can be good for shallower depth of field out of doors.

An interesting filter is a green (X1) or yellow-green (X0). The green darkens red which can help (or at least change!) skin tones. I use an X0 most times because it lightens trees. Ilford HP5 has a spectral response dip in the green area so it helps counter that and keeps pine trees and such from losing detail.

Medium Yellow, Orange. Red. Blue. All in all the filters for B&W are a small number.

Your best bet is to get two or three or more possible filters. Then shoot the same scene with all filters. Pay attention to how different colors get rendered. From this you'll be in a good position to select a filter for particular shots.

 

[Waltherl]

As I recall, the filter threads on my loaner C220 with an 80mm lens was 46mm. But with a 46mm-to-49mm step-up ring. I was able to use my 49mm filters on that camera.

The only filters I ever used with that camera were yellow or orange, but I was shooting mostly out of doors, and never portraits, so you may want something else.

I found this thread which adds a bit more information:

Mamiya C220 Pro 80mm lens with filter thread step-up ring?

I am using a Mamiya C220 Professional TLR camera which has the black 80mm f2.8 lens with a Seiko shutter. Based on published specifications and my measurement, I am almost certain the filter threads on the front of this lens are 46mm. I would like to use some b&w contrast filters on the taking...

www.photrio.com

Owh, 46mm Thanks for this info, and perhaps step up rings might be smart for sure.

If you haven't already done so, be sure to download the owner's manual and read it.

Mamiya C220 / Mamiya C220 F, professional instruction manual, user manual, pdf manuals

Mamiya C220 / Mamiya C220F instruction manual

www.butkus.org

or: https://dn710000.ca.archive.org/0/items/manualzilla-id-7009930/7009930_text.pdf

Yep downloaded it. I've read it of course but most of the non specific technical stuff speaks for itself.

Confirmed

Thanks for the confirmation.

Focal length and filtering are completely distinct issues, i.e. filtering can't make up for a non-ideal focal length. This said:

• 80mm should be OK for shoulders-and-head portraits; of course, the bellows of the C220 allow tighter crops, but beware of "big-nose" effect.
• For tight portraits, the 135 would be more appropriate
• IMO, for portraits, the best opportunities for creativity are:
  • lighting
  • good contact with the subject; in that respect a TLR is better than SLR/RF; even better if you have camera on tripod, cable release, and can interact with model without interference from camera.
• From reading (no personal experience) yellow filter will attenuate skin defects, blue filter will accentuate them (gives character for male portraits).

"big-nose" effect... . But yes,it is basically the same as with different focal lengths, it will deform the object/subject. So, 135 will be what I need to be focusing on. Thanks.

As I will have more of the surroundings in the image with an 80mm I was looking, especially for outdoors, to filters to change the colour of the sky or something. But I will have to do some testing I guess, to see what I will be getting with each option.

Thanks for this info Bernard.

A few filter things- look into the filter threads on possible future purchases. Maybe another Mamiya lens uses 49 or larger. Think about, as mentioned already, using an adapter ring to use larger filters on the 80mm to save having to repurchases filters.

Filters cut light, which can be good for shallower depth of field out of doors.

An interesting filter is a green (X1) or yellow-green (X0). The green darkens red which can help (or at least change!) skin tones. I use an X0 most times because it lightens trees. Ilford HP5 has a spectral response dip in the green area so it helps counter that and keeps pine trees and such from losing detail.

Medium Yellow, Orange. Red. Blue. All in all the filters for B&W are a small number.

Your best bet is to get two or three or more possible filters. Then shoot the same scene with all filters. Pay attention to how different colors get rendered. From this you'll be in a good position to select a filter for particular shots.

Thanks Dan! This is a lot of useful information and I did not think about filters cutting light. Another useful effect of filters it seems. Looks like I will be sacrificing a roll or two for testing purposes.

 

[bernard_L]

This document on the Mamiya C system might be useful to you. Pay attention to the difference between "silver" and black series; e.g. the 80/2.8 is listed as 40.5mm in the silver series and 46mm in the black series.

 

[MattKing]

Look for 46mm filters, and consider putting a UV or skylight filter on the viewing lens.
That will allow you to continue to use the lens cap.

 

[Waltherl]

This document on the Mamiya C system might be useful to you. Pay attention to the difference between "silver" and black series; e.g. the 80/2.8 is listed as 40.5mm in the silver series and 46mm in the black series.

Interesting information. According to this document body and lens are from 1975. Both gold two letter codes survived: body HD and lens HA.

 

[Waltherl]

Look for 46mm filters, and consider putting a UV or skylight filter on the viewing lens.
That will allow you to continue to use the lens cap.

Oh, this is also useful to know. I have the original lens cap which does state 48∅. So 49mm was never the correct filter thread come to think of it... duh...

 

[MattKing]

Oh, this is also useful to know. I have the original lens cap which does state 48∅. So 49mm was never the correct filter thread come to think of it... duh...

No - the lens caps fit on to/slide over the outside of the filters, so their sizing is different than the filters, whose threads screw into the lens threads.

You may find the resource file put together by Graham Patterson ( @grahamp on Photrio) to be helpful.
http://dotinthelandscape.org/mfaq/

 

[Waltherl]

No - the lens caps fit on to/slide over the outside of the filters, so their sizing is different than the filters, whose threads screw into the lens threads.

You may find the resource file put together by Graham Patterson ( @grahamp on Photrio) to be helpful.
http://dotinthelandscape.org/mfaq/

I know, but I mean, if the hood was 48 then the filter could never have been more than that.

 

[MattKing]

You have it!
There are a few lenses in the system with filter sizes that differ from 46mm - my 65mm lens and its 49mm filter size being an example - but if your system expands, the 46mm filters will serve you well.

That being said, if you decide to go the filter size adapter route, 49mm works well.
Just look out for extra lens caps sized for the 65mm lens
Lens hoods as well.

 

[Waltherl]

You have it!
There are a few lenses in the system with filter sizes that differ from 46mm - my 65mm lens and its 49mm filter size being an example - but if your system expands, the 46mm filters will serve you well.

That being said, if you decide to go the filter size adapter route, 49mm works well.
Just look out for extra lens caps sized for the 65mm lens
Lens hoods as well.

Well, first lens that I will acquire next to the 80mm will be a 135mm. So I'm safe there ;-). And apparently I might need a paramender as well... but, first the filterset... which will be my next target right after buying my new enlarger... turns out that enlarging medium format does not work well with a 35mm enlarger, who would have guessed...

 

[MattKing]

The 135mm lens remains a favorite of mine.
The paramender is useful, but really only becomes important if you do a lot of close focus work.
More often than not, I just raise the camera the appropriate distance just before you release the shutter.
Of course, I do use a C330, and I have two types of paramender, so perhaps I'm not the best to ask about that

 

[bernard_L]

More often than not, I just raise the camera the appropriate distance just before you release the shutter.

Agree, but to clarify. Do not attempt do do by hand what the paramender does, i.e. a parallel displacement of the camera by the distance between the two lenses (50mm?) . Rather, tilt the camera up (easier to do) such that the field of view at the subject distance will rise by that same distance. Just guesstimate.

 

[Waltherl]

The 135mm lens remains a favorite of mine.
The paramender is useful, but really only becomes important if you do a lot of close focus work.
More often than not, I just raise the camera the appropriate distance just before you release the shutter.
Of course, I do use a C330, and I have two types of paramender, so perhaps I'm not the best to ask about that

Agree, but to clarify. Do not attempt do do by hand what the paramender does, i.e. a parallel displacement of the camera by the distance between the two lenses (50mm?) . Rather, tilt the camera up (easier to do) such that the field of view at the subject distance will rise by that same distance. Just guesstimate.

Most likely I'll have to do that in any case. A paramender 2 is not really cheap it seems.

 

[MattKing]

Agree, but to clarify. Do not attempt do do by hand what the paramender does, i.e. a parallel displacement of the camera by the distance between the two lenses (50mm?) . Rather, tilt the camera up (easier to do) such that the field of view at the subject distance will rise by that same distance. Just guesstimate.

FWIW, that parallel displacement by hand works quite well for me when my subject to lens distance is relatively close to where it starts to really matter - about 10x the focal length of the lens.
So around 1.35 meters/4 feet or thereabouts with the 135mm lens, and about half that with the 65mm lens.
If the camera and subject are farther apart, it almost never matters.
And if they are much closer than those distances, using either a Paramender or the correct 50mm adjustment of the centre column on a tripod works well.

 

[smokeandnomirrors]

I recently bought a C33 but was unable to find a source of longer focal length lenses. If anybody knows a reliable source in EUrop, would appreciate hearing about that. Thank you.

BTW, we have a licensed Hoya shop here so I bought a bunch of filters for B&W. The green variants cost me about 24 euros equivalent and the red, orange etc. were about 36 euros.

 

[pdccamerqs]

Back to the question about which filters to bring along on a b&w shoot. I usually carry yellow, orange, and red filters, and sometimes a neutral density if I want a long exposure (like to blur water in a river or waterfall) or a polarizer if I want to cut reflections in glass or in water. I use the yellow, orange and red primarily to darken skies and create more contrast between sky and white clouds. Here is a great website with example images: https://brooktreefilmlab.com/how-black-white-filters-work-top-3-reasons-to-use-a-bw-filter/

Cheers!

Paul

 

[MattKing]

I enjoy using film that extends its sensitivity into the near IR and IR part of the spectrum.
A TLR with a 720nm filter on the taking lens is absolutely perfect for that.

 

[blee1996]

Another good lens for tight head shots is the 180/4.5 Super lens. It is a superb lens.

 

[Waltherl]

FWIW, that parallel displacement by hand works quite well for me when my subject to lens distance is relatively close to where it starts to really matter - about 10x the focal length of the lens.
So around 1.35 meters/4 feet or thereabouts with the 135mm lens, and about half that with the 65mm lens.
If the camera and subject are farther apart, it almost never matters.
And if they are much closer than those distances, using either a Paramender or the correct 50mm adjustment of the centre column on a tripod works well.

Thanks for this tip. I'll be looking out for a paramender but wil def. use this to my advantage.

I recently bought a C33 but was unable to find a source of longer focal length lenses. If anybody knows a reliable source in EUrop, would appreciate hearing about that. Thank you.

BTW, we have a licensed Hoya shop here so I bought a bunch of filters for B&W. The green variants cost me about 24 euros equivalent and the red, orange etc. were about 36 euros.

Kamerastore usually have decent lenses, so does https://fotohandeldelfshaven.nl/ in the Netherlands.

Back to the question about which filters to bring along on a b&w shoot. I usually carry yellow, orange, and red filters, and sometimes a neutral density if I want a long exposure (like to blur water in a river or waterfall) or a polarizer if I want to cut reflections in glass or in water. I use the yellow, orange and red primarily to darken skies and create more contrast between sky and white clouds. Here is a great website with example images: https://brooktreefilmlab.com/how-black-white-filters-work-top-3-reasons-to-use-a-bw-filter/

Cheers!

Paul

Thanks for this, I'll be looking into those four filters for sure.

I enjoy using film that extends its sensitivity into the near IR and IR part of the spectrum.
A TLR with a 720nm filter on the taking lens is absolutely perfect for that.

Do you have some examples of images taken with this Matt?

Another good lens for tight head shots is the 180/4.5 Super lens. It is a superb lens.

Okay, gets on the wishlist as well...

 

[smokeandnomirrors]

Thank you, I know those two shops, they have no lenses for the Mamiya for the last months.

A local shop had a paramender for sale for about 240 euros last year, I didn't want to pay that much for it so I continue to be paramenderless...