Blank negatives - can Rodinal go from fine to non-working in a week?

[Jesper]

Sometimes things end up in a strange way. I recently attended an 80th birthday party and took a group photo with my 8x10 camera and with a Rolleiflex as backup (you never know).


The 8x10 negatives came out completely blank to my surprise and I started thinking back to what might have gone wrong.


Could the shutter have malfunctioned? Probably not as I always trip the shutter a few times in advance to see that it is working and remembered having done so this time as well. A renewed check of the shutter showed that it was still working. Both I and people at the party remembered hearing the click as well.

Could it be that I forgot to pull out the darkslide? No, I remember pulling it out and again, people at the party remembered seeing me holding it while exposing.

Could I have removed the wrong darkslide? No, then the negative would have been exposed through the ground glass and not totally blank.

Could I have gotten the order of the liquids mixed up and fixed before I developed? Again the answer was no since the liquid in tray number one had changed colour as expected (Rodinal) and the smell definitely identified the third one as fixer.

Could the negatives have been bad from the start? Probably not since every other negative from the box had worked fine.


Still thinking about what could have gone wrong I developed my backup pictures from the Rolleiflex, and guess what, they turned out blank as well.


My only alternative right now is the developer. Could Rodinal go totally bad from one week to the next? I am close to the end of the bottle and it has turned brown but that has never had any effect before and just the week before I developed with good result. However, I can’t really see any other problem.

 

[AERO]

Sometimes things end up in a strange way. I recently attended an 80th birthday party and took a group photo with my 8x10 camera and with a Rolleiflex as backup (you never know).


The 8x10 negatives came out completely blank to my surprise and I started thinking back to what might have gone wrong.


Could the shutter have malfunctioned? Probably not as I always trip the shutter a few times in advance to see that it is working and remembered having done so this time as well. A renewed check of the shutter showed that it was still working. Both I and people at the party remembered hearing the click as well.

Could it be that I forgot to pull out the darkslide? No, I remember pulling it out and again, people at the party remembered seeing me holding it while exposing.

Could I have removed the wrong darkslide? No, then the negative would have been exposed through the ground glass and not totally blank.

Could I have gotten the order of the liquids mixed up and fixed before I developed? Again the answer was no since the liquid in tray number one had changed colour as expected (Rodinal) and the smell definitely identified the third one as fixer.

Could the negatives have been bad from the start? Probably not since every other negative from the box had worked fine.


Still thinking about what could have gone wrong I developed my backup pictures from the Rolleiflex, and guess what, they turned out blank as well.


My only alternative right now is the developer. Could Rodinal go totally bad from one week to the next? I am close to the end of the bottle and it has turned brown but that has never had any effect before and just the week before I developed with good result. However, I can’t really see any other problem.

With only a small amount in the bottle =>oxydisation??

 

[Jesper]

Correct, only a small amount left.
If oxydisation is the cause I'm surprised at how quickly it went from fully working to not at all.

 

[Raghu Kuvempunagar]

Could Rodinal go totally bad from one week to the next?

This is easy to check - do a clip/snip test.

 

[moofy]

It has happened to me. Rodinal keeps well but it’s not immortal. As with any developer try and store it without oxygen and suspect any bottle that’s almost empty.

 

[Jesper]

This is the first time it has happened to me though I've used Rodinal for 40+ years but you are never too old to learn something new.

 

[JensH]

Yes, at some point the developer turns from low sulfite to (quasi) no sulfite to degraded p-aminophenol.
Step by step done by oxygen...
Get a fresh bottle.

Sorry for your lost images.

 

[Rayt]

Thanks for sharing your experience. I have used Rodinal down to the last drop with the crystals rattling when I shake the bottle and never had any problems. How old was your bottle? Now shooting much less I can’t go through developers like I used to so it’s now all Rodinal and HC110 and between the two I’ll choose Rodinal as my only developer so it doesn’t sit.

 

[tcolgate]

I had about 1/5th of a bottle sitting for 6 months that I then discovered had failed (the hard way)

 

[pentaxuser]

Isn't it best to reserve our answers until the OP has done the clip test as suggested by Raghu and then continue after the OP has reported his result?

pentaxuser

 

[agentlossing]

Isn't it best to reserve our answers until the OP has done the clip test as suggested by Raghu and then continue after the OP has reported his result?

pentaxuser

Exactly. Speculation is silly, just test the developer. I personally find it pretty unlikely that Rodinal has gone bad.

 

[Craig]

I have a 2004 Agfa datasheet and it says that the life of an unopened bottle is 2 years, opened concentrate is 6 months and the mixed solution has a very short life and must be mixed immediately before use.


How long was it before mixing and developing? Maybe the developer did fail after mixing.

 

[pentaxuser]

I have a 2004 Agfa datasheet and it says that the life of an unopened bottle is 2 years, opened concentrate is 6 months and the mixed solution has a very short life and must be mixed immediately before use.


How long was it before mixing and developing? Maybe the developer did fail after mixing.

Based on all the evidence I have seen and my own experience I'd say Agfa was being somewhat "conservative£ ( British understatement) when it stated the above.

pentaxuser

 

[Chuck1]

Mix it and use it immediately, one time use

 

[mshchem]

Mix it and use it immediately, one time use

Yes, exactly.

The Rodinal was mixed immediately before use???

You can't leave mixed Rodinal sit in a tray.

 

[tezzasmall]

Well I'm one of those whose fresh bottle of Rodinal died after just ONE film had been processed. I've not used it since, preferring to now mix fresh my home mixed D76 / ID11. BUT, even with this I now ALWAYS do a clip test with a film leader to check the developer is working before developing a full film.

Shame about you losing both sets of film.

And I hate to say it, but this is where digital comes into it's own, with one able to look at the exposures taken. There are of course occasional memory card problems.

Terry S
UK

Terry S

 

[Jesper]

Thanks for the input and the mystery is solved. A piece of thoroughly exposed film (handled in daylight) was developed and came out completely blank so I think it is safe to say that the developer had ceased to be.

I've been using Rodinal for 40+ years and never had this happen to me before but apparently it is a real risk. I always mix it just before developing. The bottle was produced in March 2024 and I steadily use two bottles a year so I must have opened it sometime around Christmas. According to the information from Craig (two years unopened and six months opened) it is at the end of its life but usually there is some margin.

At least now I know that Rodinal can die from om week to another at the end of the bottle. I just wish I'd found this out with other negatives but such is life.
I still like Rodinal but I will be more careful in the future.

 

[AERO]

Buy a canister of inert gas and blow it into the bottle each use..?

 

[bernard_L]

It has happened to me. Rodinal keeps well but it’s not immortal.

I had about 1/5th of a bottle sitting for 6 months that I then discovered had failed (the hard way)

Well I'm one of those whose fresh bottle of Rodinal died after just ONE film had been processed.

A piece of thoroughly exposed film (handled in daylight) was developed and came out completely blank so I think it is safe to say that the developer had ceased to be.

I've been using Rodinal for 40+ years and never had this happen to me before but apparently it is a real risk.

I have these two plastic bottles, one AGFA Rodinal, 3/4 full, one ADOX Adonal, less than 1/4 full. Given to me ~10 years ago. No expiration date, at least not in plain form. Stored at room temperature; significant amount of crystals sloshing at bottom. I use them occasionally (for APX100, the real one, kept cold) and they just work.

So, @moofy @tcolgate @tezzasmall @Jesper it would be instructive if you could provide information:

• What Rodinal? Adox Adonal? Adox Rodinal? Fomadon R09? Or... ??
• Bought when? where?

Is Rodinal the new Xtol? By advance thank you for your cooperation.

 

[moofy]

Fomadon R09. Maybe 1/10th of a bottle left at the end, lots of crystals and the colour of pee after a hard night out. Don’t remember where I bought it now, it was a few years back but probably process supplies in Clerkenwell or Parallax in Brixton (London).

 

[retina_restoration]

Years ago I was buying the R09 variant, and twice I found the bottle had died in under a year when still half full. I avoid that stuff like the plague.
About 5 years ago I bought Adox Rodinal and the bottle is half full now. I use it only occasionally, and I used it yesterday and it worked exactly as expected.
So, it matters which "Rodinal" you buy and by whom it is made.

 

[Jesper]

The developer in my case was Adox Rodinal so it might not be that straightforward that there is a "safe" version. In the past I've used all possible versions of Rodinal without any problem so it is just this one bottle that has died upon me.

I will not stop using Rodinal but I will be more careful in the future and test it.

 

[MTGseattle]

In the case of the recent Adox Rodinal (I am using this stuff as well) perhaps we should decant it into a glass bottle as maybe that slightly frosted plastic bottle or its cap is letting in some O2?
I have a partial going that is starting to form crystals. I opened mine in May 2024. I've been trying to squish the bottle to get some air out, but I can also see that leading to some sort of breach in the bottle.

 

[AnselMortensen]

The most recent bottles of Adox Rodinal I have purchased are missing the plastic plug with the tiny metering hole in the center.
This would allow quicker oxidation.
Anybody else notice this?

 

[tcolgate]

In the case of the recent Adox Rodinal (I am using this stuff as well) perhaps we should decant it into a glass bottle as maybe that slightly frosted plastic bottle or its cap is letting in some O2?
I have a partial going that is starting to form crystals. I opened mine in May 2024. I've been trying to squish the bottle to get some air out, but I can also see that leading to some sort of breach in the bottle.

Mine had a lot of crystals when it it died. I've heard people say that it is fine when the crystals appear, but it seems like that's probably a good time to start doing clip tests.