C41 process -- help !

[angah316]

Hi there ..

i got inquiry on my developing film ... im using noritsu v50 machine ..just replace with new developer (CD) >> refill with fresh on replenish tank and Main CD TANK (18.1 L) .. i maintain BLEACH, FIXER and STB chemical at the machine .
i put in Starter 120ml ( 6.7x 18.1 L = 120ml) .. and i Heat the machine back .. start for developing ..
and i dont understand why the result like this .. what's problem

for reference : below was 5 days back , negative on the top is the latest

 

[koraks]

Probably a mixing error with your chemistry. Can you please specify:
* Which chemistry (brand + product type) you use?
* What the total volume of developer you have made?
* What exact amount of each concentrate and how much water you have mixed together?
Also, assuming the V50 has automatic replenishment (not sure; can you verify?), have you configured this correctly for your developer?

i maintain BLEACH, FIXER and STB chemical at the machine

Finally, just to be sure: have you tried running an affected strip of film through some fresh bleach and fixer to exclude any problems with bleach and/or fix?

 

[mshchem]

I agree with Koraks

I would look at the bleach and fixer tanks

 

[angah316]

I agree with Koraks

I would look at the bleach and fixer tanks

i just drop out around 1.8L bleach from main tank , and top up with fresh bleach (N2) .. maintain the fixer ..
CD as i mention earlier is fresh CD.
my first attempt the negative looks good
unfortunately after that , next film development turn out same as previous ibrown+greeny
i attached 2 photos of film negative ;

- first photo : from left ; result of negative from my last develop yesterday, middle negative is a control sleeve, and on th right , my negative film after i drop out Bleach 1.8L and top up with fresh bleach .. the closest color to the control strip .
- 2nd photo : the next film negative after the first one was develop ..


additional infos
* Which chemistry (brand + product type) you use? - Champion
* What the total volume of developer you have made? - yesterday around 20 rolls
* What exact amount of each concentrate and how much water you have mixed together? - its all based on instruction manual by Champion ...

Also, assuming the V50 has automatic replenishment (not sure; can you verify?), have you configured this correctly for your developer? i believe no problem at all on this ..
my question here , does any indication we can identify the problem based om color of negative ?

 

[koraks]

on th right , my negative film after i drop out Bleach 1.8L and top up with fresh bleach

This one:

That's a strip of Kodak Vision film, i.e. ECN2. Its base color and gamma will be off if you run it through C41. It's an unfortunate comparison with the C41 strips to the left of it. Stick with one type of film during testing; you'll drive yourself crazy if you also include wildly different kinds of film in your testing. Get everything to work reliably with just regular C41 film first.

- 2nd photo : the next film negative after the first one was develop ..

If you see a dramatic reduction in quality shortly after replacing the bleach, it implies that there might be occurring a big amount of developer carry-over into the bleach. Have you verified that this isn't happening and that all rollers etc. function properly, are clean and free of damage?

* What the total volume of developer you have made? - yesterday around 20 rolls
* What exact amount of each concentrate and how much water you have mixed together? - its all based on instruction manual by Champion ...

I meant 'how many liters of developer', and I asked for specifics of how you mixed it, in order to exclude a mixing error. I understand you believe you mixed it all correctly - otherwise you wouldn't be asking what the problem is. So in order to try and track down the problem, I'm trying to figure out *exactly* what you're doing so maybe we can spot an error that you have overlooked.

i believe no problem at all on this ..

There's a problem somewhere alright, that's why I'm checking things.

Sorry, I can't tell you where the problem is only based on the photos of the film strips you've shown. You'll have to come up with a lot more specific information.

 

[angah316]

ohh yes its true .. the c41 negative comparison are kodak Vision Film with remjet removed .. but the the second photo are KOdak Colorplus .. u managed to spot it .. damn good ..

 

[koraks]

It's easy to tell; the sprocket holes are different. And I recognized the red base color. Btw, the red base on the Vision3 film looks pretty normal for Vision3 processed in C41. But because it's so dense, there's a good chance that the problem that you saw with the next roll was already there and it just wasn't visible on the Vision3 roll.

 

[koraks]

Btw, you mention having changed the bleach, but no mention of fixer. I recommended to try and re-bleach and re-fix a film strip that already showed the problem. Have you tried this?

 

[angah316]

Btw, you mention having changed the bleach, but no mention of fixer. I recommended to try and re-bleach and re-fix a film strip that already showed the problem. Have you tried this?

i gonna try this .. shortly .. and come with result ..
still in my mind thinking .. is fixing could change the color of negative ?

 

[koraks]

is fixing could change the color of negative ?

Insufficient fixing can leave some silver halide and this can indeed have a slight discoloration. However, in my experience, incomplete fixing is usually uneven, so you would see color variations across the film strip.

 

[angah316]

Insufficient fixing can leave some silver halide and this can indeed have a slight discoloration. However, in my experience, incomplete fixing is usually uneven, so you would see color variations across the film strip.

im gonna do it manually .. to re-bleach and re -fix (fresh) .. do i need starter to stabilise these two .. ?

 

[koraks]

do i need starter to stabilise these two

No. Also, this may be something that's getting confused in translation, but there seem to be two things mixed up in your remark:
* Starter is used for some chemistry (esp. developer) to bring a fresh tank to the same specifications as a tank volume that has been used and replenished.
* Stabilizer is used at the end of the process as a final treatment for the film.
They're very different things.

Generally, a starter is used for developer and sometimes for bleach too. For the developer, it's critical - if you're running into problem with development and you're using a developer that requires a starter, but you're not adding it, then this will cause big problems (hence my earlier questions what you're mixing exactly in what quantities). For the bleach, it's usually not critical and leaving out the starter (if it's specified in the first place) usually has no bad effects.

 

[angah316]

No. Also, this may be something that's getting confused in translation, but there seem to be two things mixed up in your remark:
* Starter is used for some chemistry (esp. developer) to bring a fresh tank to the same specifications as a tank volume that has been used and replenished.
* Stabilizer is used at the end of the process as a final treatment for the film.
They're very different things.

Generally, a starter is used for developer and sometimes for bleach too. For the developer, it's critical - if you're running into problem with development and you're using a developer that requires a starter, but you're not adding it, then this will cause big problems (hence my earlier questions what you're mixing exactly in what quantities). For the bleach, it's usually not critical and leaving out the starter (if it's specified in the first place) usually has no bad effects.

i add in Starter in the machine .. during pour in the CD ... volume of starter 6.7 x 18.1 = 120ml
got u on that ... starter critical for developer not for bleach n fixer ..
stabiliser the end of process after fixer ..

 

[czygeorge]

i add in Starter in the machine .. during pour in the CD ... volume of starter 6.7 x 18.1 = 120ml
got u on that ... starter critical for developer not for bleach n fixer ..
stabiliser the end of process after fixer .

Hi angah
What I can suggest is:
Check pH and special gravity of all 3 chem,and check pumps, temperature

Since you pour the starter in the machine,it needs a bit lot of time to stir(by circulation pump)

Bleach come with a starter which is needed,bleach actually perform at least 50% part of negative's final result