Giving up on old folders

[Donald Qualls]

the unit focusing means that the lens needs to be fully retracted for folding.

My (35 mm) Weltini has the same requirement, only it has a cam that automagically resets the focus to infinity as you fold it. Konica didn't include one of those?

 

[Helge]

My (35 mm) Weltini has the same requirement, only it has a cam that automagically resets the focus to infinity as you fold it. Konica didn't include one of those?

Same with the folding Retinas. And many other folding 135 cameras. But forces and solidity of the cameras are completely different between 120 and 135. A Retina scaled linearly to 120 size would weight ≈ 1.5 kilos.
A Retina protests tangibly when you try to close it. You can clearly feel something is wrong, and you have little chance of damaging anything unless you are stupid.
Not so with a Pearl or Certo Six.

 

[Kodachromeguy]

If you can get by with 135 size film, any of the folding Kodak Retinas are solid and keep the lens properly aligned with the film plane. They are remarkable examples of mechanical engineering and precision. Here is an frame from my Retina IIa in Houston, Texas. This is Gold 200, and a finer-grain film, like Ektar 100, would show even more detail. The Xenon lens is excellent.

 

[Donald Qualls]

The Xenon lens is excellent.

I completely agree. My Weltini also has the f/2 50 mm Xenon, you'd never know it was a folder from the images.

 

[xya]

Same with the folding Retinas. And many other folding 135 cameras. But forces and solidity of the cameras are completely different between 120 and 135. A Retina scaled linearly to 120 size would weight ≈ 1.5 kilos.
A Retina protests tangibly when you try to close it. You can clearly feel something is wrong, and you have little chance of damaging anything unless you are stupid.
Not so with a Pearl or Certo Six.

IMO you tell a lot of untruthful prejudices about japanese cameras. Most of them are fine, my Pearl never failed in 30 years. My japanese TLRs and SLRs are in professional service since more than 40 years...

 

[Helge]

IMO you tell a lot of untruthful prejudices about japanese cameras. Most of them are fine, my Pearl never failed in 30 years. My japanese TLRs and SLRs are in professional service since more than 40 years...

Let me guess that those TLRs and SLRs are from after 1960? Nikon F meant a huge leap in ambitions.
Not that Japanese cameras before that are crap. They are just not, in general, up to the same standard as the German counterparts.

 

[4season]

Just how reliable was the Fuji GA645zi ?
Would low count model offer any chance of long term use ?

When it was new, it was great. But by the time I sold mine circa 2005, the hard plastic body cladding had already developed hairline cracks.

I would not pay top dollar for a lightly-used GA645zi, because I think some problems may be age-related. Instead, I'd look for a heavily discounted unit, with the expectation that either I or someone else (perhaps www.fotonaprawa.pl) would need to replace flexible PCBs and gears used for autofocus, zoom and film transport.

I have not serviced a Mamiya Six folder, so I can't comment on whether it's design is prone to certain problems, or whether something else is amiss.

But there's a pretty good reason why you're getting a bunch of recommendations for older cameras which have either non-coupled rangefinder, or no rangefinder at all: Simpler, (usually) cheaper, and reliable. The designer's intent was that most shooting would be done with lens stopped down to f/10 or so, and not only will those vintage lenses perform best in that range, but the camera will be more forgiving of focusing errors too.

 

[David A. Goldfarb]

After a certain amount of experimentation, I settled on the Voigtlander Perkeo II plus a shoe mount rangefinder to satisfy my Pocketblad needs (fits in my briefcase pocket or coat pocket when traveling for non-photographic reasons, but I still want to have a camera).

Another modern camera that I don't think I saw mentioned above is the Bronica RF645, which I've never owned, but it generally got positive reviews.

 

[Melvin J Bramley]

The Bronica is tempting but expensive used ; I am concerned it could suffer the same frailties as the Fuji's and is even less repairable.
It does not make sense for me to spend $1400 to $2000 CDN on a camera that could cost $700 to repair the electronics of the 1990's ?
Perhaps this is why so many revert to the old folders?
I may just have to persist in finding someone that can solve my issues or purchasing another late model folder.

 

[GregY]

After a certain amount of experimentation, I settled on the Voigtlander Perkeo II plus a shoe mount rangefinder to satisfy my Pocketblad needs (fits in my briefcase pocket or coat pocket when traveling for non-photographic reasons, but I still want to have a camera).

Another modern camera that I don't think I saw mentioned above is the Bronica RF645, which I've never owned, but it generally got positive reviews.

Me too! Great camera... about the same size as a cell phone!

 

[guangong]

Zeiss folders have the most reliable rangefinder among folders, since the prism sits on the extended lens and requires no complicated coupling with the camera body.

 

[4season]

I gripe about my prewar 6x4.5 Zeiss Ikonta 521's lack of amenities: The simple optical finder, separate film advance and shutter cocking operations, the left-handed film advance and shutter release. But it delivers the goods! And it's about as small as a 6x4.5 camera can be.

 

[4season]

My Agfa Isolette III with the entry-level Pronto shutter and mid-grade Apotar lens. I find the shape of this camera particularly pleasant to handle. Uncoupled rangefinder is handier than you might expect. 3-element Apotar lens is not the most resolving, but it can deliver pleasing results.

 

[henryvk]

Have you checked infinity focus/rangefinder calibration on this camera? The Mamiya 6 looks like such a nice camera and it sounds like it's just out of alignment.

If I were you I'd check infinity with the SLR method and see if the RF is correctly calibrated.

 

[Randy Stewart]

I bought a used GS645 in the 90s. Had Fuji USA replace the bad bellows and a CLA. It worked reliably until it was stolen. I bought a replacement and had Camera Wiz do the same job to it. I still have it and it works fine, if not heavily used. I'll go with Qualls on the Pearl III. They have gotten a bit pricy, but probably no more than a Mamiya 6 folder. I have a Pearl IV, and IMO it is the smallest, best folder 645 format camera ever made, but it comes with a premium price these days. I've owned two Mamiya 6 folders, and I've never liked either one. The optics seem a bit hazy, and they are heavy as a brick in your pocket. So, best optics and imaging, GS645; smallest, coolest, an nearly perfect, Pearl IV. Compromise: Pearl III. I do not care for a 6x6cm format, but if I was looking for one now, I'd top my list with an Agfa Super Silette or its Ansco branded equivalent, but pricy. I have a GA645Zi, and it is very nice, but it is not really an alternative when looking for a MF folder. It's much larger, and it's auto functions and electronics strip away all of the tactile feel and thought process of doing it yourself. (But it does do all of that very well indeed.)

 

[henryvk]

I may just have to persist in finding someone that can solve my issues or purchasing another late model folder.

If you could describe the issue maybe you could get some advice right here. Most often infinity is off because the front standard is not properly aligned and there are many threads on here that describe how to collimate/calibrate folding cameras.

 

[MattKing]

The Mamiya Six is unusual because it focuses by moving the focal plane.
I would suggest that giving up on folders because your Mamiya Six is giving you focus problems is a little bit like giving up on European cars because your vintage Lancia is hard to keep tuned.

 

[takilmaboxer]

The Mamiya Six is unusual because it focuses by moving the focal plane.
I would suggest that giving up on folders because your Mamiya Six is giving you focus problems is a little bit like giving up on European cars because your vintage Lancia is hard to keep tuned.

And that's why the old Ikonta folders are so cool. If the Mamiya 6 is a vintage Lancia, the Ikonta is a VW or a vintage Chevy. It will do the job reliably, every time.

 

[blee1996]

I have a Mamiya 6 Automat folder, and after two fixes by myself, it can make accurate critical focus and produce tack sharp photos. The Mamiya 6 is well designed with its unit focus mechansim by moving the entire film back, so if the focus is properly collimated can produce as good results as any folders of that era. I scratched the half-silvered mirror while I tried to clean the VF/RF, so in the end I bought a new custom-cut mirror, replaced the mirror, and did the vertical and horizontal calibration. I'm just an enthusiast with limited experience, so a proper technical should be able to get yours to work properly without much trouble. Here are some test shots:

Mamiya 6 Automat

Explore this photo album by Zheng on Flickr!

flickr.com

I also wrote an article comparing the various low-cost 6x9 folders in this 35mmc article

Finding my ideal 6x9 folder - Largest Negative in a Compact Travel Format - by Zheng Li

Explore eight 6x9 folding cameras to find the ideal travel companion with compact size, light weight, excellent lens, larges negative, and simple operation.

www.35mmc.com

 

[P C Headland]

what about a Fuji 6, I've been looking at them for a while.

View attachment 330024

These are quite nice - decent lens, good viewfinder, automatic film counter and not too heavy. Not too long ago these didn't seem to pop up too often, but perusing ebay recently (just looking....) they seem much more readily available.

I still prefer shooting with my Iskra or Certo 6 though.

 

[grat]

Let me guess that those TLRs and SLRs are from after 1960? Nikon F meant a huge leap in ambitions.
Not that Japanese cameras before that are crap. They are just not, in general, up to the same standard as the German counterparts.

Konica IIIA. 1958.

 

[Melvin J Bramley]

I have a Mamiya 6 Automat folder, and after two fixes by myself, it can make accurate critical focus and produce tack sharp photos. The Mamiya 6 is well designed with its unit focus mechansim by moving the entire film back, so if the focus is properly collimated can produce as good results as any folders of that era. I scratched the half-silvered mirror while I tried to clean the VF/RF, so in the end I bought a new custom-cut mirror, replaced the mirror, and did the vertical and horizontal calibration. I'm just an enthusiast with limited experience, so a proper technical should be able to get yours to work properly without much trouble. Here are some test shots:

Mamiya 6 Automat

Explore this photo album by Zheng on Flickr!

flickr.com

I also wrote an article comparing the various low-cost 6x9 folders in this 35mmc article

Finding my ideal 6x9 folder - Largest Negative in a Compact Travel Format - by Zheng Li

Explore eight 6x9 folding cameras to find the ideal travel companion with compact size, light weight, excellent lens, larges negative, and simple operation.

www.35mmc.com

I have just realised that my camera has inconsistent focus.
I can focus on point (this was at short distance about 10 ft) and the range finder shows very different distances, some 20% !
Is the focus mechanism geared or friction driven?
Can the range finder stick?
Can the focus mechanism stick?
My Mamiya is also an automat and is in pristine condition , I would hate to let it go unnecessarily.

 

[4season]

Can the range finder stick?
Can the focus mechanism stick?

It's possible. Did the camera work better when the weather was warmer? It's possible that the lubricants are becoming too viscous when cold. When servicing older cameras in particular, there can be guesswork involved, as service literature may recommend products which haven't been manufactured for decades.