Looking for Advice on Mamiya RB / RZ Purchase?

[LennyOne]

Looking to buy my first proper medium format body, I have some TLR's and other antique gizmos like a Bencini Comet. I wanted to purchase myself a Mamiya RB or RZ Body, I would prefer to pick up an RZ if the price is right, although I am equally as content using the fully mechanical counterpart. I had a scroll through the classified and am sorting out a subscription so I may post myself in the WTB section. Although I had wondered if anyone had any suggestions on where I might find some online. eBay can be quite daunting when buying from japan and there are no second-hand analogue stores where I live, only digital, so the likelihood of getting to view the item before the purchase is very low. I have checked locally and nationally for one but none have presented themselves just yet. I suppose what I would like to know are the following:

1: Does anyone have any places online they would recommend to shop around for an RB or RZ body, reputable websites and marketplaces?

2: Does anyone know if it is worth investing in the Pro II if purchasing the RZ, I have looked over the benefits and for portrait and nighttime street photography I don't think it justifies the price hike for the latest model.


Thanks in advance,

Best,

Lenny

 

[Donald Qualls]

My personal preference is for the no-batteries-needed RB67. Got one, with 50, 90, and 250 lenses, metered chimney, unmetered prism, and waist level finder, plus 6x7, 6x6, and 6x4.5 backs (and a 220 6x7 back I use for 35mm pano); just got a left hand grip. I'm not a big fan of electronics-dependent cameras, but then again, I learned this stuff around 1970...

 

[LennyOne]

Thank you very much for the comment, I would be looking for a similar set up minus the panoramic capabilities! I understand the no batteries preference entirely having used weltaflex and a rolleiflex although I'm fortunate enough to be a digital native so I am happy to delve into either avenue. I realise the big difference being electronic battery reliability, although I don't plan on using the camera without premeditating using it!

I was looking to acquire the 90 & 50 lens

Thank you again, any tips on the best places to pick up a body or someone set up, can't find much on here?

 

[narsuitus]

I also prefer manual/mechanical cameras vs. automatic/electronic cameras.

I use two RB67 bodies. I purchased one body from KEH.com and the other body from Japan on eBay. One body has a waist-level finder and the other body has a prism finder. I purchased a number of backs from various sources. I had to have the light seals replaced on one body and four backs.

I normally use 50/90/180mm lenses. I also have 140, 150, 250, and 100-200mm lenses but use them less often.


RB67 by Narsuitus, on Flickr

 

[Donald Qualls]

I got mine from a Japanese seller on eBay and I've been completely happy with it. Some of my lenses came from American sellers, the other stuff from Japan. All eBay. Then again, I have a couple decades of experience reading eBay listings, so I'm pretty good and avoiding problems. Not perfect, but pretty good.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Nothing wrong with dealing with Japan sellers in eBay. I do it often. In '92, I had the same dilemma. I went with the RB after playing with both in my local camera shop when I lived in Japan. Still have it. Still use it. I've got an APO 350 KL that I want to get rid of. I've used it once since I picked it up in '06. Maybe swap it for a couple shorter lenses, and another holder. The lens that gets used the most is the 50. The 127 gets pulled out of the bag, too. Maybe a 90, 250.

 

[LennyOne]

I also prefer manual/mechanical cameras vs. automatic/electronic cameras.

I use two RB67 bodies. I purchased one body from KEH.com and the other body from Japan on eBay. One body has a waist-level finder and the other body has a prism finder. I purchased a number of backs from various sources. I had to have the light seals replaced on one body and four backs.

I normally use 50/90/180mm lenses. I also have 140, 150, 250, and 100-200mm lenses but use them less often.


RB67 by Narsuitus, on Flickr

Thank you for the input! Looks like I'm going to be heading to ebay as I've been watching KEH and nothing has come up concerning either recently. If you were going to recommend three lenses for street photography, mostly nightlife, what would you consider?

 

[LennyOne]

I got mine from a Japanese seller on eBay and I've been completely happy with it. Some of my lenses came from American sellers, the other stuff from Japan. All eBay. Then again, I have a couple decades of experience reading eBay listings, so I'm pretty good and avoiding problems. Not perfect, but pretty good.

Well if I run into any trouble on eBay I know who I should run to for help then haha!
Thank you very much for the input, I suppose I'm usually just a little terrified of purchasing things with this kinda price stage without being able to physically hold the item! ANy suggestions with regard to quality ratings, most seem to be sitting in near min condition these days.

 

[LennyOne]

Nothing wrong with dealing with Japan sellers in eBay. I do it often. In '92, I had the same dilemma. I went with the RB after playing with both in my local camera shop when I lived in Japan. Still have it. Still use it. I've got an APO 350 KL that I want to get rid of. I've used it once since I picked it up in '06. Maybe swap it for a couple shorter lenses, and another holder. The lens that gets used the most is the 50. The 127 gets pulled out of the bag, too. Maybe a 90, 250.

I guess its just the fact that I won't be able to inspect the camera and I also worry about returns with the way the world is right now! Thank you very much for the advice, I really appreciate the input and as of right now I'm thinking 50mm 90mm and maybe pic up something else after a few months, although entirely unsure what that will be.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

I highly recommend the 50. One thing about Mamiya optics, they're sharp!

 

[Wayne]

The only problem I had buying an RB lens from Japan was language. It was nearly impossible to communicate with the seller, misunderstandings developed about shipping and he took it out on me by never leaving me feedback even though I paid promptly. Misunderstanding developed because he told me one thing but actually did another, and what he did was what he was supposed to do and what I wanted him to do. But he inadvertently said he he did something else. It was messy.

It wouldn't stop me from buying from Japan again, but I might communicate with the seller in advance next time to make sure we CAN communicate.

 

[voceumana]

I've made a few purchases from Japanese sellers and have been very happy with them; one was a relatively expensive lens for a Pentax 67 (the 300mm IF/ED). Look at the pictures very closely as the Japanese sellers seem to document everything with good photos.

I went for the RB67 system because it is mechanical. I do not dislike electronics nor electronically controlled cameras, but I believe fully mechanical cameras have a better chance for repair and service long after the manufacturer has ceased support.

 

[Sirius Glass]

I suggest that you consider buying from KEH because of they are very conservative about their ratings and you have six months to return, replace or have repaired policy. I have been buying cameras and lenses from them for over a decade.

 

[Arthurwg]

I also prefer manual/mechanical cameras vs. automatic/electronic cameras.

I use two RB67 bodies. I purchased one body from KEH.com and the other body from Japan on eBay. One body has a waist-level finder and the other body has a prism finder. I purchased a number of backs from various sources. I had to have the light seals replaced on one body and four backs.

I normally use 50/90/180mm lenses. I also have 140, 150, 250, and 100-200mm lenses but use them less often.


RB67 by Narsuitus, on Flickr

The lack of need to replace light seals is one good reason to go with the Rz Pro II, IMHO.

 

[Donald Qualls]

I suggest that you consider buying from KEH because of they are very conservative about their ratings and you have six months to return, replace or have repaired policy. I have been buying cameras and lenses from them for over a decade.

The only problem with KEH is that the older the system gets, the less likely they are to have any of them. The RB67 is coming on fifty years old now, for the original Pro model, and even the Pro SD ended production close to thirty years ago. That said, when I have bought items from them (M42 lenses, for instance) I've been very happy with my purchases.

 

[Sirius Glass]

The only problem with KEH is that the older the system gets, the less likely they are to have any of them. The RB67 is coming on fifty years old now, for the original Pro model, and even the Pro SD ended production close to thirty years ago. That said, when I have bought items from them (M42 lenses, for instance) I've been very happy with my purchases.

Yes you are correct. Of course in that case he could just jump to Hasselblad since that is where he will end up anyway, but far be it from me to jump in and start him on that path this early.

 

[Donald Qualls]

You make that sound inevitable. Why would I spend Hasselblad money when my RB67 is more versatile?

 

[Sirius Glass]

You make that sound inevitable. Why would I spend Hasselblad money when my RB67 is more versatile?

1. Larger system, more choices.
2. More availability of cameras, lenses, accessories, parts.
3. More servicing available.
4. Lighter, one does not need a truss nor tripod [as often]
5. It is inevitable, "To resist the Force of GAS, impossible it is." Yoda Star Wars MMMMDCCCLXXXVIII Hasselblad buy you will!

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

The only problem I had buying an RB lens from Japan was language. It was nearly impossible to communicate with the seller, misunderstandings developed about shipping and he took it out on me by never leaving me feedback even though I paid promptly. Misunderstanding developed because he told me one thing but actually did another, and what he did was what he was supposed to do and what I wanted him to do. But he inadvertently said he he did something else. It was messy.

It wouldn't stop me from buying from Japan again, but I might communicate with the seller in advance next time to make sure we CAN communicate.

Ask me if you need translating for next time.

 

[Louis J. P II]

Yes you are correct. Of course in that case he could just jump to Hasselblad since that is where he will end up anyway, but far be it from me to jump in and start him on that path this early.

Then WHY every time anyone aksked about another brand you feel this SILLY need????? I have been an avid happy user of another brand (then yours) for years and don't feel cheated at all.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Then WHY every time anyone aksked about another brand you feel this SILLY need????? I have been an avid happy user of another brand (then yours) for years and don't feel cheated at all.

Oh come on. It's all a bit of fun.

 

[Donald Qualls]

1. Larger system, more choices.

Sure. Until I want to shoot 6x7. Yes, Hasselblad has 6x4.5 backs. But they don't revolve, and sometimes the proportion of 6x7 is better. If I had the money, I can get lenses from 30mm fisheye, 50mm up to 500 mm, similar range of finders. It's going to be heavier, it's a 7x7 body (due to the revolving 6x7 back). But if I have a shutter issue, just change lenses -- vs. sending the body in for service.

 

[Ariston]

I suggest that you consider buying from KEH because of they are very conservative about their ratings and you have six months to return, replace or have repaired policy. I have been buying cameras and lenses from them for over a decade.

I agree with Sirius partly. I no longer find KEH all that conservative in their ratings (they used to be), but it doesn't really matter because their return policy is outstanding. Like Donald, I haven't really seen a lot of RB/RZ stuff on KEH lately.

I had a good experience with a Japanese seller. I bought a kit. They sent one wrong item, but shipped out the right thing immediately once I contacted them.

As far as RB vs RZ, I am of the mechanical persuasion. The RB67 is just wonderful. If you could find one with a newer film back that doesn't need light seals, all the better. But that will probably cost you.

 

[Wayne]

Ask me if you need translating for next time.

Thanks, i will.

 

[Kyle M.]

I've owned an RB67 Pro S, RB67 Pro SD, RZ67 Pro, and RZ67 Pro II. I prefer the mechanical RB but have nothing against the RZ that being said.

If you get an RB67 Pro that is the first model and it does not have interlocks to keep you from double exposing or firing the shutter with the dark slide in.

The RB67 Pro S has interlocks so that you cannot fire the body with the darkslide inserted and you cannot double expose unintentionally both the Pro and Pro S use foam seals in the back, in my experience it doesn't seem to matter if the seels between the body and back go bad but if the seals in the back fail you will get light leaks. I have never used the early odd shaped RB lenses just the later C and K/L lenses.

The RB67 Pro SD added the new K/L lenses I prefer the 90mm and 127mm in both the C and K/L configuration, the 50mm is also great. The Pro SD backs do not have foam seals so you don't have to worry about replacing those they also have a slot to store the dark slide on the back as opposed to the side of the camera body, I always used a Pro SD back on my Pro S. If I remember correctly the K/L lenses can be used on the earlier Pro and Pro S bodies but to use them on the Pro SD you need a trim ring that originally came with the lens. I believe it's only cosmetic and covers a gap between the rear of the lens and front of the body on the Pro SD.

If going RB I would suggest a Pro SD or a Pro S with a Pro SD back and the 90mm or 127mm for regular shooting, get a 50mm for the wide shots and if you want to do macro work with the 90mm or 127mm grab the #1 and #2 extension tubes. The 50mm will close focus to about 1.5" without the extension tubes and is therefore incompatible with them.

The RZ67 Pro is the first model RZ and also has no foam light seals in the back. The advantages of the Pro II are some improvements to the electronics, half step shutter speeds, and a fine focus knob. The RZ67 Pro IID has and integrated interface for communicating with digital backs.

If I were going with an RZ67 today I'd get a plain Pro with a 110mm F=2.8, and the 50mm. A few years ago when a Pro was $350 and the Pro II was $500 I'd say spend the extra on a Pro II for the fine focus and half stop shutter speeds. But now that Pro models are $1000 and Pro II's can go for $1800-$2000 I'd recommend the Pro over the Pro II unless you really need half stop shutter speeds and the fine focus knob.

Here's some examples of how much prices have increased on RB's and RZ's recently I don't know where they're going but hopefully someday they come back down. I'd really like to have another RB67 with the 90mm someday. It was my main camera for almost two years, I carried it everywhere and shot it handheld 95% of the time.

I bought my RB67 Pro S with a 120 Pro SD back and 90mm C lens in 2013 for $300, I've seen this kit going for over $600 lately.

I bought my RB67 Pro SD a year later with the same setup but a K/L 90mm for $450, I've seen these going for $800-$1000 recently.

I bought my RZ67 Pro with 120 back and 110/2.8 in 2016 for $300, this seems to be a $1000 kit nowadays with the 110/2.8 that was $150 4 years ago now going for $600-$700 alone.

and finally I got my RZ67 Pro II with a 120 back and 110/2.8 in 2019 for $850, these seem to go for $1800-$2000 nowadays.

The Pro IID? I have no idea the last one I saw was in 2015 ish and the body alone was $2100!