Zorki 4K vs Leica M

[removedacct2]

Well, I began this thread with a Zorki in mind, but found the Feds to be better cameras.

I am quite happy with my Fed 3.

Fed and Zorki are basically the same mechanism, with variations. Hard to say one is better. Main difference is speeds range, then it's about ergonomics (kind of diopter adjustment, knob or lever, bottom or back loader, strap lugs, etc).
I have a Fed-3 first version (Fed-3a) I bought the winter just before covid-19 set for 1500 rub ~ 16€ in SPb. it's still knob, so still stepped top since no need to accommodate room for the wheel and spring under a lever, it has the strap lugs.

here is the Industar-26

it's more than a year I haven't used, so the other day in the evening I took it with a roll of Lomography-400, which is probably (as per keycodes) a Kodak Gold-400. So a cheap consumer film, with some grain. Lenses I took a Jupiter-8 and a yellowish lanthanum Industar-61. Most shots were at 1/8 and 1/15. I often find myself needing slow speeds for hanheld shooting and down to 1/8 I'm comfortable, 1/4 handheld is tricky.

couple shots.

Jupiter-8

Industar-61 L/D

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now, the fun after this was:
I am used to soviet gear, means I always cock after a shot. In fact with any camera soviet, japanese or german, I wind on/cock after a shot. But then there's the time an exception happens.
I got a call and when was done, I metered for another picture and messed up: set shutter before!! I was on slow speeds, and this resulted in a jam, or rather said the mechanism is off, a notch, a pin and a lever are misaligned.

So this is the drawback with these cameras that have a slow speed range: no safety. But then the instructions are clear, so it's not a design failure, the design is wanted like this, simple and basic.
But the advantage of this simplicity is the ease of fixing things oneself. That's where people are set apart: those who can change wheels and engine oil themselves and those who consider it to be magical tasks to be accomplished by some guru.

so it was jammed, no big deal just fix it. I recalled this thread and took couple snapshots.

here i already removed the top, and show what was the problem, you can see curtains stuck closed, shutter button triggers nothing:


under the top, the slow speeds mechanism is the part with a brass wheel on its right end, around the main shaft:

a short overview : the fast speeds wheel with slow speeds clock removed, the curtains movement with triggering lever of the 2nd curtain, the RF mechanism, the diiopter adjustment, and the slow speed mechanism:



see? it's beautiful in simplicity. If the parts were to specs at the factory, this just works and works and works. Repair is easy, just be cautious not to bend something even slightly.

the slow speed clock is also damn simple, yet caution with tinkering that can throw off the timing (not overdo the spring, wheels alignment, screws tightness, planarity )

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in this case unscrewing the slow speed clock reset the mechanism. Done, jam fixed. While I was there I did some more unscrewing in order to check cleanliness and do a bit of lubrication. But this camera was in very good shape anyway.

this mechanism is common with the Zorki. There are slight differences. As I have a Zorki-4 dismantled for cleaning and lubrication, in order to show the level of compatibility, here I have put the slow speed mechanism of the Zorki-4 on this Fed-3:



a fast speed, involving only the lower notched wheel and no action of the slow speed mechanism, then a slow speed and you see the delay clock at work. Here still the slow speed mechanism of the Zorki-4, it's shape is a bit different and it lacks the leg/support of the one for the Fed-3 (Zorki-4 uses instead a hook around main shaft):



for absolute idiot-proof reliability, where what I did by inadvertence despite my familiarity (set speed before cocking) will have no effect, there are the Zorkl-5 and Zorki-6, and some latest Fed-2, but these lack slow speeds.

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so this takes half an hour and camera fixed. I spend more time taking the shots and pictures put here than fixing the stuff.

I got for nothing a Fed-4 under the brand name Revue-4 used back in the time by german mail order and photo retailer Quelle / Foto-Quelle. It is pristine, and the selenium meter checked against a Sekonic is accurate. I have put a patch of black plastic maintained with some gaffer over the selenium. So it's curtains are not moving, winding lever moves without effect, no trigger catch. Well, again, this will be easy, just find five minutes to remove the top.

but first I will finish the Zorki-4. So, here this Fed-3 fixed, just remount the top, the Zorki-4 to finish, and the new Fed-4 to do:



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most Leica-ist are arrogant and racist because in fact they just don't know how a camera works, and in the case of the soviet Fed/Zorki, the design which was kept simple for ideological reasons (soviets were not going to produce expensive luxury/stuff : so no Porsche, no Leica, etc), is prone to failure in case of wrong manipulation, besides the fact that after 60 years any mechanism may be affected by dried out lubricant and/or accumulation of small dusts/film debris.
But as shown, this simplicity means ease of fixing. These cameras are very well documented.

what does the image quality is the lens. and if a Leitz is 10x to 100x more expensive than a Jupiter, it isn't 10x to 100x better ....

 

[George Mann]

Antonio, I have a Fed 3b that seems to function flawlessly, which is currently mated to an Industar 61l/d.

Your writeup certainly explained a few things.

 

[Patrik]

Hey, I got a Zorki-4k camera from my grandfather. At home I found a film VX 100 36/135 made by konica minolta... Can I use that filter on the camera? How do I know what film is for what camera, is it the same? Thank you!

 

[AgX]

For your Zorki camera you can use any film that got that "135" designation as on that box you show. This stands for the type cassette with film this cameras takes. It is the standard type of cassette you can get everywhere where they still sell film.

The figure before that 135 shows the number of photos you can take with such film. Standard is 36, but you may also find 24.

 

[snusmumriken]

I think shooting Soviet-era cameras is an interesting adventure in period nostalgia, but also a massive frustration. My experience is not with rangefinders but with a Soviet Zenit SLR, which I bought new in the late 1960s - my first 35mm camera, and for 10 years all I could afford. I can still recall the heady smell of the leather case, which was superb. But I also remember all too well the many times I could have wept because the grub screws on the lift-and-turn speed selector knob had lost their grip on the spindle (again), so that the knob spun uselessly. The shutter itself was noticeably erratic and periodically let me down completely. As others have said about the rangefinder models, the mechanics were poor in both design and execution. You realise this when home repairs become a necessity; or if you compare someone's Leica made perhaps 30 years earlier. Ergonomics of the Industar lens were fiddly, and after a couple of years iris adjustment felt like a nutmeg grater. If you can push through all these handicaps, you can still get some decent photos, as @antonio_b and scores of Russian photographers have proved.

If I was looking for a bargain rangefinder with decent mechanics and a very nice lens, and at the moment crazily affordable even in top condition, I think I would look at Olympus or Yashica models. Just a thought.

 

[AgX]

I can still recall the heady smell of the leather case, which was superb. ... Ergonomics of the Industar lens were fiddly.

The Zenith leather everready case I got has the best leather I ever saw at an everready case, including Leitz.
The benefit of the SLR Industar is its small size, kind of pancake lens, which as such is loved today. Maybe the inherent shortcoming of such is bad ergonomics. (And one has to carry a lens shade anyway, in contrast to the bulky CZJ Tessars.)