Don't underexpose and don't over develop the film.
I would like to think photography is straight forward, but I have a feeling that there will be more posts to follow.It can't be as símple as those 7 words, can it, Keith? Well not based on 174 posts it would seem.
pentaxuser
I would like to think photography is straight forward, but I have a feeling that there will be more posts to follow.
Here's post #177
David,Thanks for clarifying - what is your preferred developer for each of TMY and TMX?
(I don’t shoot large format, so 320Tri-X is “greener grass on the other side of the fence”.)
Don't misunderstand me, Ralph. I strive for the best negative possible all the time. It's just that it seems to me that an empirical approach to ZS testing is adequate and a lot less time-consuming. Film-speed testing is really easy to do without a densitometer or a calibrated step wedge, etc. I do do speed tests with every new film I try and make occasional checks on what I'm currently using by making negatives and proper proofs. The OP wanted a simple approach, so starting out 2/3 stop slower than box speed without testing will get most people really close to their ideal E.I.VC papers are certainly a big help. But a perfect print only comes from a perfect negative The ZS is still the best way to produce a perfect negative.VC printing is a convenient way to fine-tune the perfect print. They work best together; one does not replace the other!
You asked...This thread reminds me of the time I tried to get the wasp nest out of the shed.
There is no such thing as simplified (or not) zone system for 35 mm. Any car salesman will swear there is though. It's not just about roll film and multitude of image types on a single roll. It is simply a total waste of time trying to milk ZS ideology into 35 mm film and get nothing more out of it in the end. We might as well start discussing zone system for 110 film.
Yup. I'd add don't under-develop, but that's about it.
Making great negatives is dead easy no matter what sort of print you visualize.
Of course that's not going to help OP much as far as the Zone System is concerned, but since a simplified Zone System set up is what was requested it is perhaps worth repeating - downrate your film by 2/3 stop and you're basically done. The rest is imagining how subject luminance values transition to print densities.
I send my film out to a pro lab to develop normally. Do your words hold for me too?
Yes, Alan. Basically for the average B&W negative film there is very little if anything to be gained by modifying development (especially if you are scanning negatives and editing digitally).
Downrating the film’s ISO speed by 2/3 stop (ie set your meter to 64 for a 100 ISO film) gives you the exposure index a Zone System “personal EI test” should result in, and that will give you some extra shadow detail or a safety factor. This is independent of development so no need to tell the lab to do anything different.
The main idea is that when you use your spot meter and figure out what exposure you need to give the film for a particular scene, you picture the kind of print you want and make sure you give enough exposure so that you can print as much detail in the dark areas as you might want. The film will literally do the rest and then it’s up to you in editing/printing.
Milpool appears to be a mole sneaking into the Zone world in order to blow it up. Take away minus and plus development, and it simply ain't any kind of Zone System anymore. But that brings up the dilemma in what a "zone" even means.
A) To some, you've always got a dynamic model of textural value assigned between Zones 2 and 7, so in effect have to stretch the space occupied by each intervening segment if the scene contrast range exceeds 7 stops (or 9 stops if you include pure black and pure white).
B) To others, each Zone represents one distinct stop of exposure value. Therefore, if the scene contrast range has 12 stops, you need to think of 12 zones to accommodate it; and if a low contrast scene of, say, only 4 stops, you've only got four zones to contend with.
Therefore, those little gray scale Zone stickers people put around spot meter dials are inherently misleading with respect to how films differ in relation to one another and how scene contrast can also widely differ. So should those little gray scales be elastic like a rubber band (scenario A) or rigid with potentially differing quantities of centipede segments (scenario B) ?
Now I've complicated things even more, but actually not me at all, because there are in fact so many competing, even contradictory,
variations of the Zone System. That doesn't bother me at all because I tend to visualize actual specific film curves when out shooting, rather than what species of segmented centipede is involved. And yes, one of the most useful tools is how those curves can be tweaked by thoughtful development variations, despite what Milpool claims.
But I've spent a lot of time doing densitometer plots, so realize my own manner of visualization might not be practical for others. Tools are just that - tools. Good tools make life in the darkroom a lot easier. But no tool is more important than your own eyes.
VC papers are certainly a big help. But a perfect print only comes from a perfect negative The ZS is still the best way to produce a perfect negative.VC printing is a convenient way to fine-tune the perfect print. They work best together; one does not replace the other!
It depends on how your negatives turn out. If you are using the ISO/ASA rating and the negatives are good, continue doing that.I send my film out to a pro lab to develop normally. Do your words hold for me too?
Yes and you have many decades of experience behind you to know exactly what works for you.What do you mean? I have made some outstanding prints from marginal negatives.
Yes I found that book to be a pretty good text on what to do and why to do it but as Doremus says "the reduce film speed by 1/2 to 2/3rd stop and reduce development time by 15-20%" maxim probably gets you very close. The best text I have found 35mm is The Zone System for 35mm Photographers by Carson Graves. It will provide what I called a crippled zone system. It I was not so lazy I would invest the time in learning BTZY to see if bring anything to the party that I cannot achieve with the traditional zone system.
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