Zone System - who has an easy to follow - simple guideline to setting it up

250swb

Member
Joined
Apr 22, 2012
Messages
1,534
Location
Peak District
Format
Multi Format

I was replying to the OP thinking that is what he wanted to do, not saying he shouldn't do it as you suggest.
 

Sirius Glass

Subscriber
Joined
Jan 18, 2007
Messages
50,389
Location
Southern California
Format
Multi Format

I have found that for me using only the exposure part of the Zone System, great success with color print and black & white film. I look at the composition, choose what I want Zone V to be and which Zone II, III or IV for when I want the shadow exposure based on the film box speed. Then is needed adjust for any filter. While I understand and can use the Zone System development adjustment, I have not needed to use them. YMMV
 

MurrayMinchin

Membership Council
Subscriber
Joined
Jan 9, 2005
Messages
5,481
Location
North Coast BC Canada
Format
Hybrid
Using exposure/development control when making negatives means less reliance on heroic efforts during printing.

In effect, it puts you closer to the middle of the playing field where adjustments are easier, rather than out near the fringe where tiny modifications can get wildly twitchy.
 
Last edited:

Kino

Subscriber
Joined
Jan 20, 2006
Messages
7,766
Location
Orange, Virginia
Format
Multi Format
I just spent the last hour exposing 4 sheets of Delta 100 with a Kodak Step wedge taped to the emulsion to start my calibration.

Since I only have one wedge target, I had to tape it to the surface of the first sheet, run outside and shoot a defocused white card at +5 stops (after confirming with a spot meter) and then run inside back to the darkroom, douse the lights, move the target and do it again three more times.

Tonight I will mix a fresh liter of D76 from scratch and let it age overnight for testing tomorrow.

Plan on starting at Ilford recommended time/temp for the first sheet and then decrease development time for the next two sheets by 1 minute each.

Once I read these tests on my densitometer and plot the curves for these three sheets, I can evaluate where it is going and decide if I need to continue decreasing development times or bounce back to the top and add a minute to see the effect (I suspect the former, not the later).

Was it a pain, oh yes. My neighbors think I am crazy anyway, this has cemented their opinion. Who runs in and out of their house, taking pictures of a white board?

No matter how you decide to calibrate your development times, it takes pain-in-the-butt testing and burning film.
 

xkaes

Subscriber
Joined
Mar 25, 2006
Messages
4,791
Location
Colorado
Format
Multi Format
Proving there are many ways to do it -- but it only has to be done once.
 
Last edited:

RalphLambrecht

Subscriber
Joined
Sep 19, 2003
Messages
14,657
Location
K,Germany
Format
Medium Format

I'm also with Nicolas above, but I rate the film typically at box speed of -1/3 stop. For N+ and N- exposure and development, I see no shortcut to a proper film test with your favorite equipment and developer.
 

Kino

Subscriber
Joined
Jan 20, 2006
Messages
7,766
Location
Orange, Virginia
Format
Multi Format
BTW, I have good a good quality scan of the (blank) "Kodak Curve-Plotting Graph Paper" form if anyone wants a copy...
 

Paul Howell

Subscriber
Joined
Dec 23, 2004
Messages
9,705
Location
Scottsdale Az
Format
Multi Format
Although rather detailed and not for someone who does not want to understand the math, Beyond the Zone System is an option. I have not done a deep dive myself, I have only read Phil Davis's book, but a guy near me sells turitial on CDs and will test film and developer for $50.00. BTZS will only work for sheet film. He also carries a good selection of large format gear.

 

MattKing

Moderator
Moderator
Joined
Apr 24, 2005
Messages
53,085
Location
Delta, BC Canada
Format
Medium Format

RalphLambrecht

Subscriber
Joined
Sep 19, 2003
Messages
14,657
Location
K,Germany
Format
Medium Format
BTW, I have good a good quality scan of the (blank) "Kodak Curve-Plotting Graph Paper" form if anyone wants a copy...

Oh, yes please to ******** or post it here.
{Moderator edit: please don't post personal email addresses in public posts. The Private Conversation system is ideal for that.}
 

MattKing

Moderator
Moderator
Joined
Apr 24, 2005
Messages
53,085
Location
Delta, BC Canada
Format
Medium Format

Hassasin

Member
Joined
Feb 23, 2023
Messages
1,330
Location
Hassasstan
Format
Multi Format
And in the end don’t forget that AA and all others, after all the implied perfection of pre-visualstion, testing, measuring, tuning of development times, and so on, they often enough spent countless hours correcting that perfection in the darkroom, dodging, burning, and in fact many a times entirely altering what they had claimed to have visualised in the first place.

ZS is good to learn how things interact. Do take its premises with some grain of salt, so the love of your life you met last night still holds some promise in the morning.
 

RalphLambrecht

Subscriber
Joined
Sep 19, 2003
Messages
14,657
Location
K,Germany
Format
Medium Format
Will what I posted do or do you need a larger file?

I made an absurdly large scan of it but reduced it 75% for the above posting.

EDIT: OK. Let me know if it's too low in resolution and I will email a better copy.

I'll be looking forward to your email.
 

tykos

Member
Joined
Jun 26, 2020
Messages
103
Location
italy
Format
4x5 Format
I'm also with Nicolas above, but I rate the film typically at box speed of -1/3 stop. For N+ and N- exposure and development, I see no shortcut to a proper film test with your favorite equipment and developer.

we should also note that these -1/3, -2/3, -42 stops mostly depend on how the user meters the scene.
Slight differences in what can be considered zone 2 vs 3, different wanted results, different type of scenes (vegetation vs. studio vs. portraits), inconscious corrections due to experience all contribute to a different film rating, that's why the personal testing, even if not conducted scientifically, is important.
 

clar260

Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2011
Messages
5
Format
35mm
Technically if you want to calibrate to the Zone System criteria you would begin by using an EI 2/3 stop lower than ISO speed. Then you figure out your development times for normal, minus, plus.

Thanks!
 

clar260

Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2011
Messages
5
Format
35mm

Thanks, Nicholas and Tykos, too. I think I understand now.
 

BrianShaw

Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2005
Messages
16,535
Location
La-la-land
Format
Multi Format

This post is worthy of being plagiarized for use as a Revised Introduction, or perhaps a Postscript, in the next printing of Adams’ The Negative.
 

Milpool

Member
Joined
Jul 9, 2023
Messages
747
Location
Canada
Format
4x5 Format
Not really. The Zone System speed point falls 2/3 stop below the ISO speed point by definition, which is why when people go through the whole EI process, on average pretty much everyone ends up with a so-called “personal EI” 1/2 to 1 stop below the ISO speed. That’s why when someone asks about a simpler way to set themselves up with the Zone System, it is reasonable to suggest skipping the superfluous exposure index work.
 

Milpool

Member
Joined
Jul 9, 2023
Messages
747
Location
Canada
Format
4x5 Format
This post is worthy of being plagiarized for use as a Revised Introduction, or perhaps a Postscript, in the next printing of Adams’ The Negative.

I agree. I think most people would do better to read Book 3 first, and then perhaps something like Kodak’s Basic Sensitometry Workbook. It becomes fairly obvious that The Negative could be distilled down to a pamphlet, and that the way in which great prints are made is by working on printing, not working on making negatives. People get lost in this notion of great negatives. In fact that part of the process is more or less trivial. Give your negative sufficient exposure and that’s pretty much it, like it or not.
 

pentaxuser

Member
Joined
May 9, 2005
Messages
19,979
Location
Daventry, No
Format
35mm
My advice is to forget the testing for personal E.I. and just rate your film 2/3-stop slower than box speed to begin with (note: this is not 2/3 box speed, but 2/3-stop...).

Doremus
I am a little confused now. Is this not the same thing? If I have a 400 speed film then I just rate it at 250 which is two x one thirds slower than box speed

If there a difference here between rating your film 2/3 slower than box speed and 2/3 stop?

Thanks

pentaxuser
 
Cookies are required to use this site. You must accept them to continue using the site. Learn more…