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Zone System - who has an easy to follow - simple guideline to setting it up


I was replying to the OP thinking that is what he wanted to do, not saying he shouldn't do it as you suggest.
 

I have found that for me using only the exposure part of the Zone System, great success with color print and black & white film. I look at the composition, choose what I want Zone V to be and which Zone II, III or IV for when I want the shadow exposure based on the film box speed. Then is needed adjust for any filter. While I understand and can use the Zone System development adjustment, I have not needed to use them. YMMV
 
Using exposure/development control when making negatives means less reliance on heroic efforts during printing.

In effect, it puts you closer to the middle of the playing field where adjustments are easier, rather than out near the fringe where tiny modifications can get wildly twitchy.
 
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I just spent the last hour exposing 4 sheets of Delta 100 with a Kodak Step wedge taped to the emulsion to start my calibration.

Since I only have one wedge target, I had to tape it to the surface of the first sheet, run outside and shoot a defocused white card at +5 stops (after confirming with a spot meter) and then run inside back to the darkroom, douse the lights, move the target and do it again three more times.

Tonight I will mix a fresh liter of D76 from scratch and let it age overnight for testing tomorrow.

Plan on starting at Ilford recommended time/temp for the first sheet and then decrease development time for the next two sheets by 1 minute each.

Once I read these tests on my densitometer and plot the curves for these three sheets, I can evaluate where it is going and decide if I need to continue decreasing development times or bounce back to the top and add a minute to see the effect (I suspect the former, not the later).

Was it a pain, oh yes. My neighbors think I am crazy anyway, this has cemented their opinion. Who runs in and out of their house, taking pictures of a white board?

No matter how you decide to calibrate your development times, it takes pain-in-the-butt testing and burning film.
 
Proving there are many ways to do it -- but it only has to be done once.
 
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I'm also with Nicolas above, but I rate the film typically at box speed of -1/3 stop. For N+ and N- exposure and development, I see no shortcut to a proper film test with your favorite equipment and developer.
 
BTW, I have good a good quality scan of the (blank) "Kodak Curve-Plotting Graph Paper" form if anyone wants a copy...
 
Although rather detailed and not for someone who does not want to understand the math, Beyond the Zone System is an option. I have not done a deep dive myself, I have only read Phil Davis's book, but a guy near me sells turitial on CDs and will test film and developer for $50.00. BTZS will only work for sheet film. He also carries a good selection of large format gear.

 
BTW, I have good a good quality scan of the (blank) "Kodak Curve-Plotting Graph Paper" form if anyone wants a copy...

Oh, yes please to ******** or post it here.
{Moderator edit: please don't post personal email addresses in public posts. The Private Conversation system is ideal for that.}
 
Oh, yespease to rlambrec@ymail.com or post it here.

Will what I posted do or do you need a larger file?

I made an absurdly large scan of it but reduced it 75% for the above posting.

EDIT: OK. Let me know if it's too low in resolution and I will email a better copy.
 
And in the end don’t forget that AA and all others, after all the implied perfection of pre-visualstion, testing, measuring, tuning of development times, and so on, they often enough spent countless hours correcting that perfection in the darkroom, dodging, burning, and in fact many a times entirely altering what they had claimed to have visualised in the first place.

ZS is good to learn how things interact. Do take its premises with some grain of salt, so the love of your life you met last night still holds some promise in the morning.
 
Will what I posted do or do you need a larger file?

I made an absurdly large scan of it but reduced it 75% for the above posting.

EDIT: OK. Let me know if it's too low in resolution and I will email a better copy.

I'll be looking forward to your email.
 
I'm also with Nicolas above, but I rate the film typically at box speed of -1/3 stop. For N+ and N- exposure and development, I see no shortcut to a proper film test with your favorite equipment and developer.

we should also note that these -1/3, -2/3, -42 stops mostly depend on how the user meters the scene.
Slight differences in what can be considered zone 2 vs 3, different wanted results, different type of scenes (vegetation vs. studio vs. portraits), inconscious corrections due to experience all contribute to a different film rating, that's why the personal testing, even if not conducted scientifically, is important.
 
Technically if you want to calibrate to the Zone System criteria you would begin by using an EI 2/3 stop lower than ISO speed. Then you figure out your development times for normal, minus, plus.

Thanks!
 

Thanks, Nicholas and Tykos, too. I think I understand now.
 

This post is worthy of being plagiarized for use as a Revised Introduction, or perhaps a Postscript, in the next printing of Adams’ The Negative.
 
Not really. The Zone System speed point falls 2/3 stop below the ISO speed point by definition, which is why when people go through the whole EI process, on average pretty much everyone ends up with a so-called “personal EI” 1/2 to 1 stop below the ISO speed. That’s why when someone asks about a simpler way to set themselves up with the Zone System, it is reasonable to suggest skipping the superfluous exposure index work.
 
This post is worthy of being plagiarized for use as a Revised Introduction, or perhaps a Postscript, in the next printing of Adams’ The Negative.

I agree. I think most people would do better to read Book 3 first, and then perhaps something like Kodak’s Basic Sensitometry Workbook. It becomes fairly obvious that The Negative could be distilled down to a pamphlet, and that the way in which great prints are made is by working on printing, not working on making negatives. People get lost in this notion of great negatives. In fact that part of the process is more or less trivial. Give your negative sufficient exposure and that’s pretty much it, like it or not.
 
My advice is to forget the testing for personal E.I. and just rate your film 2/3-stop slower than box speed to begin with (note: this is not 2/3 box speed, but 2/3-stop...).

Doremus
I am a little confused now. Is this not the same thing? If I have a 400 speed film then I just rate it at 250 which is two x one thirds slower than box speed

If there a difference here between rating your film 2/3 slower than box speed and 2/3 stop?

Thanks

pentaxuser