Zone System vs. Photo Shop

[bonk]

I have read a lot about the zone system lately. And I am now ready to get started. There is only one proplem: I do not own a darkroom, also I don't think it would be possible for me to spend all my weekends in a darkroom. But I have a really good and friendly photo shop/lab in my neighborhood. Looking at the services they offer they also seem to be pretty professional.
Do you think it is possible to get into the Zone System without doing negative and positive development and prints myself? What are your experiences with this workflow? What should I watch out for when approaching the shop? Would I need to make sure that they will always use the same chemicals/development procedures for my film and prints? If I wanted to shorten development time to modify the contrast, how can I make sure they understand and modify the development by the factor I desire?
I would like to start out with the "calibration tests" suggested by Mr. Adams. At the end of the first step of the test procedure I would need to measure the density of the negatives. Do professional photo shops usually have a device for this? Is such a device expensive? Maybe I can get one myself for cheap? I own the Gossen Profisix Lightmeter. Is there maybe an adapter for it to measure film density?

Any hints, tips and tricks for this kind of workflow are welcome.

 

[Donald Miller]

To answer your questions would require that we would know how ammendable your lab is to your requirements. If you lab is responsive to your needs, they may very well work out for you.

Most labs of any ability would have a densitometer. Again, you might ask them if they have the capability to measure film density for you.

If they have the ability to perform the work and are desirous of your business, then this might be something for you to do. I will say in closing, however, that there is something unexplainable about watching a print come up in the developer...to see the print washed and dried...and finally to see it mounted and framed...all of those steps are part of your creative input into the process.

 

[smieglitz]

You'll be missing all the fun if the lab does the work for you. Do yourself a favor and buy a changing bag and daylight developing tank to process the film yourself. Unless I absolutely had to, I would not trust this aspect to any but my own hands. (But, there are also good labs that do this sort of thing everyday.)

The lab probably has a densitometer and could measure the values for you, but a densitometer is not an absolute necessity for doing the zone system. Known densities on a $10 Stauffer 21-step density wedge can be visually compared to your film results to get the information you need.

Your next read should be John Schaeffer's book where he summarizes Ansel Adams' Zone System and illustrates its application. It's called "The Ansel Adams Basic Guide To Photography" (or something like that) and I think the first book is the one you want. The second is on alternative processes.

Joe

 

[papo]

Just off topic, Joe, where does your quotation come from? Why I am so interested? Well, I'm Czech and the three "unenglish" words in it resemble (phonetically) the Czech words, viddied the Czech word for "saw", gloopy the word for "stupid" and oomny the word for "knowledgeable" , which perfectly corresponds with the sense of the quotation.

Besides, I quite agree with your statement about the zone system, especially the first paragraph.

 

[Bob Carnie]

Going to a pro photo lab would/could/may possibly be your answer.
I would suggest the following conditions.

The lab is running a Jobo, *one shot* method with exactly the same amount of film in each run.
Stick with consistant developer for your first year of production.
This will give you a platform of consistancey.
Do not expect them to run one sheet of film every two weeks, and be very consistant at your end.
Only adjust the times for specific drop/pull situations. Before you start doing this make sure you understand why you want to do so.* once again give the film lab a consistant volume of film to make their runs profitable*
6- 35mm =full run
8- 120mm =full run
10-4x5 = full run Jobo Expert Drum
5- 8x10 = full run Jobo Expert Drum

These are some of the guidelines that my lab considers when working with clients.We do not do replenished dip and dunk and or roller transport replenished lines here for clients who want the best in film processing.
I would strongly urge you to purchase a small rotary system for your film development unless you are quite willing for a shop to run your film.
the above guidelines apply for clients work here no matter what format and you are looking at $45.00 per run for *one shot, any dev,Jobo processing*

You also should get the densitometer and do your legwork on all the testing that your situation needs.As well look up the books the folks above recommend and learn as much as you can.

 

[smieglitz]

Just off topic, Joe, where does your quotation come from? Why I am so interested? Well, I'm Czech and the three "unenglish" words in it resemble (phonetically) the Czech words, viddied the Czech word for "saw", gloopy the word for "stupid" and oomny the word for "knowledgeable" , which perfectly corresponds with the sense of the quotation.

Besides, I quite agree with your statement about the zone system, especially the first paragraph.

papo,

The quote is from the main character in Anthony Burgess' A Clockwork Orange.

I always thought the language therein was a mix of English and Anglicized Russian slang with Alex and his gang of malchicks doing grahzny deeds and such.

Joe

 

[JBrunner]

You may be able to research up some good info on this question on hybridphoto.com

 

[argus]

You may be able to research up some good info on this question on hybridphoto.com

With Photo Shop he didn't mean the software I was also mislead by the title.

Anyway, I second the suggestion to get a daylight developing tank - a processor is even not needed - and do contact prints from your negatives (I presume you do LF when pointing to the ZS). It's not that much of a hassle and in the long run it will cost you much less!
If you would want larger prints from specific negatives, you could go to the photo shop and have them enlarged in regard to your contact print.

G

 

[JBrunner]

Now that I carefully read through, I see I was misled by the title. I had assumed he meant to scan the negs. In any case, the zone system, and the nuances of exposure are best learned by doing your own developing. A darkroom isn't needed to develop, nor does it take a weekend, unless you shoot an incredible amount.

 

[Chuck_P]

Bonk,

I don't have darkroom either, but I have kitchen where I develop my film and print (when my wife graciously lets me for two to three weeks at a shot). I would figure out a way to develop my own.