Zenit vs. Praktica

[RalphLambrecht]

I beg to differ on reliability of Prakticas, especially their shutter has been close to bullet proof, I'd venture to say not less reliable than majority of shutters ever produced. The mediocrity is also a stretch to apply to ALL of them. Again, Prakticas were hardly mediocre in many areas and are rather reliable (and cheap) bodies for M42 crowd. Surely a lot of cameras from Western side had better fit and finish and overall give higher confidence. Praktica / Zenit are not on my high list, but have a few in my collection and they do not fall very far from many other makes / models.

I've already stated that it all depends on price. In Czech Republic it is entirely possible he can find either camera for $20-30 in great condition and with lens of course. If he is looking at paying above $50, then I would definitely aim at Western / Japanese models. Sometimes I check prices for DDR/Soviet cameras on western versions of eBay and find them stupendously ridiculous and far above market value. If that's the source, than for sure a much better cameras can be had for same money.

Of course, if someone thinks that his/her photography stinks because gear was not from the premium section of a store, then I rest my case.

unfortunately;not my expwerience;a brand-new Praktika bought in 1972 came with a shutter that lasted just one week before it broke.luvkely. I got my hard-owned money back and saved up for a Nikon FM,which I still have and which still works flawlessly. Noe they can be had for less than $50. It's an easy choice really.

 

[AgX]

And both, Zenits and Prakticas each were built in some millions.

 

[AgX]

And both, Zenits and Prakticas each were built in many millions.

 

[cuthbert]

Interesting discussion...both cameras represent the low end of two cheap and mass produced companies. To be honet I wouldn't buy any.

HOWEVER...I discovered the Praktica B series, due to its cheapness and glass quality it has become my most used system, while a Praktica BX20 is nowhere built at the same quality standard than a Pentax LX, Canon F1 or Nikon F2 it is definitely comparable to a Pentax ME Super for instance, and I prefer the Praktica to those middleweight Japanese SLRs. Interesting enough the BX20 has a very good TTL Flash system and AE lock that the LX doesn't have, it's small and light, therefore ideal for street photography. Probably my favourite of the lot is the Jenaflex/BC3, but anyone when in working conditions works well.

For the L series, I have a VLC3 which was the latest attempt to make a professional camera, I would say it's pretty good, and a MTL50 with a dark viewfinder that to be honest was already obsolete in the 80s,

For Zenit, the 12XP is a good camera, if you want something comparable to a Pentax Spotmatic I think the 19 is a serious contender, so I would recommend that model especially if it comes with a Zenitar 50 mm f1.7.

As a general rule I consider DDR glass in good shape slightly superior to the Japanese top end like Nikkor, Canon and Takumar, in particular the Pancolar 50mm f1.4 is a killer lens, like the Flektogon and the zoom Vario-Sonnar, the Soviet also made a lot of good crystal but they never bothered to improve the electronics and the bodies.

unfortunately;not my expwerience;a brand-new Praktika bought in 1972 came with a shutter that lasted just one week before it broke.luvkely. I got my hard-owned money back and saved up for a Nikon FM,which I still have and which still works flawlessly. Noe they can be had for less than $50. It's an easy choice really.

You bought a FM in 1972?

 

[AgX]

For the L series, I have a VLC3 which was the latest attempt to make a professional camera, I would say it's pretty good.

Pentacon spoiled the chance for a Praktina successor with the Pentacon Super coming too late.
I do not think the VLC was intended as such, but rather to offer a model with more features, likely being more profitable, and without competition in its price segment.

 

[cuthbert]

Pentacon spoiled the chance for a Praktina successor with the Pentacon Super coming too late.
I do not think the VLC was intended as such, but rather to offer a model with more features, likely being more profitable, and without competition in its price segment.

I still think the VLC was a direct and simplified replacement of the Pentacon Super.

The one I have gives the impression of a Nikon F competitor arrived on the market 10 years later...it doesn't look like a "cheap" camera as it offer interchangeble viewfinders, screens etc...plus open lens TTL metering...all it lacked was a motordrive.

It's not a case the flagship of the L series was discontinued after the B series was introduced, in short there was no VLC4.

 

[Deleted member 88956]

I still think the VLC was a direct and simplified replacement of the Pentacon Super.

The one I have gives the impression of a Nikon F competitor arrived on the market 10 years later...it doesn't look like a "cheap" camera as it offer interchangeble viewfinders, screens etc...plus open lens TTL metering...all it lacked was a motordrive.

It's not a case the flagship of the L series was discontinued after the B series was introduced, in short there was no VLC4.

Pentacon Super was in entirely different sphere of design and sophistication. They must have realized that trying to compete in Pro world was too expensive and too challenging (with need to only produce a comparable camera, but associated world wide support etc.). Praktica VLC was just a version of well .. Praktica.

 

[Huss]

For Zenit, the 12XP is a good camera, if you want something comparable to a Pentax Spotmatic I think the 19 is a serious contender, so I would recommend that model especially if it comes with a Zenitar 50 mm f1.7.

I had a brand new old stock 12SD which was delivered with pinholes in the shutter. Here next to my R8



It had an extremely rough shutter button feel, and a battery cap that was so loose when batteries were in that I put a piece of tape on it so it would not fall off to be lost forever.
Dark focussing screen, and a really sharp edge to the hot shoe that could injure your forehead! Kamera looked cool though. Sold it off to someone who was impressed by the looks (as I was!)

Recently picked up a 212K because I wanted the lens that was on it to use on my Pentax MX. Cheaper to buy the kamera with lens than the lens by itself! Plastic lump that I thought would be cr&p.
But the focussing screen is shockingly brighter than the 12SD, the battery cap stays on as it should, and it is just fun to use. No light leaks..

 

[cuthbert]

Pentacon Super was in entirely different sphere of design and sophistication. They must have realized that trying to compete in Pro world was too expensive and too challenging (with need to only produce a comparable camera, but associated world wide support etc.). Praktica VLC was just a version of well .. Praktica.

Actually it was a rebranded Exakta, the RTL1000 to be precise, that was meant to be a professional camera. Not as sophisticated as a Nikon F but definitely not a "simple" Praktica. The fact that open TTL metering was available with the same electric system as the Super for instance.

I had a brand new old stock 12SD which was delivered with pinholes in the shutter. Here next to my R8

Well a NOS camera with at least 30 years might have issues, I bought my 12XP for £10 including strap, bag, flash and TWO Helios 44s. It was one of my first cameras I picked up when I restarted shooting in 2013 and to be honest.

I am somewhat attracted by the ugliness of the KM plus, the latest "flagship" from Zenit with fast shutter speeds, motordrive etc...definitely it looks cheap.

 

[AgX]

I had a brand new old stock 12SD which was delivered with pinholes in the shutter.

Well a NOS camera with at least 30 years might have issues,

My thought too. Anything rubber is basically critical. Even if other makes curtains do not show pinholes after that period.

And just think of the many, even younger, japanese SLR's whose bodies turned into goo.

 

[AgX]

Interesting discussion...both cameras represent the low end of two cheap and mass produced companies.

I would not say so for both manufacturers, Pentacon and KMZ. Both made high-end stuff.

Only that both their cameras series of Praktica and Zenit are consumer grade. With the Zenit even far behind the Praktica.
And even for both series they at least partially made above consumer-grade lenses.

Pentacon even introduced quite some "firsts" in camera technology.

 

[4season]

I am somewhat attracted by the ugliness of the KM plus, the latest "flagship" from Zenit with fast shutter speeds, motordrive etc...definitely it looks cheap.

A noisy beast of a camera, and easy to shoot off a couple of unintended frames since there's no single/continuous mode or even a power switch. But it works pretty good if you can remember how to rewind the film! Seem to recall that particular detail was not especially intuitive. Though it's finder covers 90%+ of the film area, I found it a bit tougher to see the edges of the frame versus the "classic" finders in the 122 and 412.

 

[Deleted member 88956]

Actually it was a rebranded Exakta, the RTL1000 to be precise, that was meant to be a professional camera. Not as sophisticated as a Nikon F but definitely not a "simple" Praktica. The fact that open TTL metering was available with the same electric system as the Super for instance.



Well a NOS camera with at least 30 years might have issues, I bought my 12XP for £10 including strap, bag, flash and TWO Helios 44s. It was one of my first cameras I picked up when I restarted shooting in 2013 and to be honest.

I am somewhat attracted by the ugliness of the KM plus, the latest "flagship" from Zenit with fast shutter speeds, motordrive etc...definitely it looks cheap.

If you compare Exakta RTL and Praktica VLC you will see it is not exactly a rebrand, even though in general they are close enough with interchangeable finders between the two. VLC added internal TTL. Outside of ground glass based TTL metering in VLC, which meant TTL with any finder, it is still all the same Praktica, zero other differences. While I enjoy on occasions using any of them, it is a far cry in built quality and overall feeling from a Spotmatic and numerous other cameras. WLF finder is hard to fathom how it survived as long it did in one piece (probably from lack of actual use). No pro (or even "pro") would feel comfortable using that WLF extensively.

Absolutely none of the elements of the Praktica VLC resamble Pentacon Super, it is just a somewhat supped up Praktica L line. And I don't want to take away several technological contributions of what DDR engineers delivered to camera design. Perhaps if they had only had better means ...

In the end they are all capable of making very fine photographs and that is what matters most.

 

[GRHazelton]

I shot hundreds...thousands of pictures with my old Praktica LTL. Totally reliable, even after being bounced off a sidewalk, plus it had perhaps the best stop down metering implementation of any such camera. Mine still works, after having sat idle for perhaps 20 years, shutter sounds good, etc. Since the metering is a bridge circuit it is forgiving of cell voltage, while designed for a mercury cell its happy with a silver oxide; no adjustment should be necessary.
I never had any problem with hand-holding, despite the noisy shutter. Of course, as in all things YMMV.

 

[cuthbert]

I would not say so for both manufacturers, Pentacon and KMZ. Both made high-end stuff.

Only that both their cameras series of Praktica and Zenit are consumer grade. With the Zenit even far behind the Praktica.
And even for both series they at least partially made above consumer-grade lenses.

Pentacon even introduced quite some "firsts" in camera technology.

As pointed out their high end stuff was comparable, for instance the Zenit 18 and Praktica B series were not far away from a Spotmatic or a FM,

Unfortunately all the "good" Zenits (16, 18,19,21) were produced in extremely low numbers.

A noisy beast of a camera, and easy to shoot off a couple of unintended frames since there's no single/continuous mode or even a power switch. But it works pretty good if you can remember how to rewind the film! Seem to recall that particular detail was not especially intuitive. Though it's finder covers 90%+ of the film area, I found it a bit tougher to see the edges of the frame versus the "classic" finders in the 122 and 412.

Sounds promising...I see 1/2000 sec shutter...but the plastic quality seems appalling.

 

[AgX]

With high end stuff I meant the industrial/scientific/military stuff. For Pentacon just think of the cine projectors, microfilming devices.

 

[blockend]

With high end stuff I meant the industrial/scientific/military stuff. For Pentacon just think of the cine projectors, microfilming devices.

There's no question that former communist countries knew how to make superb gear, however the planned economy made it impossible to do so. If you were a senior party member or working for the sectors you mention, you had access to some great stuff. Same with cars and no doubt plenty of other stuff. Peter Hitchens, who worked in Moscow as a journalist under the FSU, noticed the difference between apartments for foreign workers and Russians. No doubt party officials got a still higher standard of accommodation.

It's said export cameras well built and tested to a higher standard than those for domestic consumption, and in the UK at least the importer individually tested each camera before sale and provided a certificate to that end. Which suggests the home product must have been very hit and miss indeed. Josef Koudelka, whose photographs of the Prague Spring invasion were smuggled out to the west, used an Exakta. I think pre-war gear was highly prized in the Warsaw Pact countries.

 

[AgX]

It's said export cameras were well built and tested to a higher standard than those for domestic consumption, and in the UK at least the importer individually tested each camera before sale and provided a certificate to that end.

I often heard that, but for the former I so far found no evidence at all, but would appreciate a hint at such.
Concerning importers, aside of british TOE I do not know either who did so.

 

[blockend]

I often heard that, but for the former I so far found no evidence at all, but would appreciate a hint at such.
Concerning importers, aside of british TOE I do not know either who did so.

Too busy to track down the article at present, but regarding the later Kiev 4 I read examples for home market were so poor owners sent them to repairers for rebuilding on purchase. At one point the entire 4M model production was dumped as scrap, so low had standards become.

"Technical & Optical Equipment (London) Ltd. were the only authorized British importers of Soviet cameras. Founded in 1962, they gained a reputation as responsible sellers, because they took apart every camera in their own repair facilities for calibration and repair before feeding them to the market..."
http://cameras.alfredklomp.com/toe/

 

[cuthbert]

A noisy beast of a camera, and easy to shoot off a couple of unintended frames since there's no single/continuous mode or even a power switch. But it works pretty good if you can remember how to rewind the film! Seem to recall that particular detail was not especially intuitive. Though it's finder covers 90%+ of the film area, I found it a bit tougher to see the edges of the frame versus the "classic" finders in the 122 and 412.

Does it meter a full aperture? This also applies to the 122k?

 

[4season]

Does it meter a full aperture? This also applies to the 122k?

Zenit KM was an all-new design, and as I recall, it did meter with lens wide-open, but did not offer a depth of field preview. Zenit 122, 122K, 412 et al are "classic" Zenit, stopped-down metering and all. Later-production cameras incorporate more plastic parts (I don't know if that's actually a problem) and have brighter finders and LED indicators.

 

[Sewin]

I have a motley collection of SLR's.

Praktica , Chinon, Minolta and Zenit.

Even though I like Prakticas and my other SLR's I keep coming back to my Zenit B and Helios preset lens time and time again.
Not sure what it is, maybe the basic simplicity, solid feel and also the mechanism on my imported UK model is smooth, perhaps TOE fine tuned it.

It just feels right to me. I've had a couple of later Zenits, bought on fleabay and at secondhand stores, but after a while they either let me down or I couldn't get on with them, but the B just keeps going.

 

[Deleted member 88956]

Personally I view all Zenits after the B (and later derivatives including 12XP) to be some of the ugliest ever manufactured. I'd have serious difficulties shooting film if all I had was a 122, 212 or one of those.

And while I like the looks of earlier from before B, the B is to me the cutest of all with no meter, plain and simple.

 

[Huss]

Personally I view all Zenits after the B (and later derivatives including 12XP) to be some of the ugliest ever manufactured. I'd have serious difficulties shooting film if all I had was a 122, 212 or one of those.

And while I like the looks of earlier from before B, the B is to me the cutest of all with no meter, plain and simple.

The Zenit 212 and its Leica twin are arguably the most beautiful kameras ever made.

 

[Deleted member 88956]

The Zenit 212 and its Leica twin are arguably the most beautiful kameras ever made.

And Angelina Jolie is surely the most beatiful that ever graced the planet earth.

 

[Huss]

And Angelina Jolie is surely the most beatiful that ever graced the planet earth.

She is a very attractive lady.