Zenit: Unfairly maligned?

Dog Opposites

A
Dog Opposites

  • 1
  • 1
  • 91
Acrobatics in the Vondelpark

A
Acrobatics in the Vondelpark

  • 6
  • 4
  • 165
Finn Slough Fishing Net

A
Finn Slough Fishing Net

  • 1
  • 0
  • 99
Dried roses

A
Dried roses

  • 13
  • 7
  • 184
Hot Rod

A
Hot Rod

  • 5
  • 0
  • 112

Recent Classifieds

Forum statistics

Threads
197,464
Messages
2,759,461
Members
99,512
Latest member
vincent83
Recent bookmarks
0

StepheKoontz

Member
Joined
Dec 4, 2018
Messages
801
Location
Doraville
Format
Medium Format
I have a few of the early Zenit's and they are fun. My 1954 model is totally a Zorki with a prism stuck on top and has the original 5cm f3.5 lens. It works fine. I have one of those 61 models with the hammer finish paint and the fins on the top of the prism. Quite the ugly duckling and has some mechanical issues not worth fixing. The final M39 in my collection is a 63 model 3M that really works flawlessly. I have a shelf full of M39 lenses for them that have been cleaned and regreased. These are optically interesting to say the least, especially the early 85mm f1.5. Clearly they were still trying to figure out how to make fast optics without having crazy Bokeh. They failed spectacularly! BTW if you ever are interested in one of those, make SURE you get the weirdo size 66mm yellow and orange filters as part of the deal!.

zenit.jpg


zenit2.jpg
 

Huss

Member
Joined
Feb 11, 2016
Messages
9,068
Location
Hermosa Beach, CA
Format
Multi Format
I guess I already said so, but again: The Zenits are the most sold 35mm SLR's.

This is true. Whoever is unlucky enough to have one cannot wait to sell it.

My 212K. Arguably the most beautiful camera ever made.

 

removedacct2

Member
Joined
May 26, 2018
Messages
366
The E series in particular have such a bad reputation as erratic or easy-breaking claptraps. Have I just gotten two unusually good Zenits? Or is it just anti-Soviet sentiment, or something else? I mean, the E is definitely basic for its time, but still exceedingly usable, and the Zenit S was definitely up to par with most of its contemporaries in the early days of the 35mm SLR... and they're all based on Leica II shutters! I just don't get it.


Zenit but also Fed, Zorki, sold outside SSSR weren't maintained like expensive german and japanese cameras...

Take a Leica II: it will get religious adoration and regular service from a technician seen as a guru in the Leica circles. They all bow and speak in big respect. And put the money. So the Leica II keeps going year after year after year and reselling at insane price.
Take a Zorki, it's regarded with disdain and contempt, a piece of communist crap. People who dare barely touch a Leica with their eyes with handle a Zorki without precautions. Servicing none. In few years or months it's broken. Nobody cared about it, mistreated it then complain it's bad camera.

here on Photrio, Medium Format subforum, a guy created a thread recently about his dear Hasselblad 503 jammed, hasselbaldists gather in sorrow and explain maybe that spring inside the lens or that lever inside the body, all tell these cameras require regular attention and this or that respected guru can make magical passes over the camera and heal it.
Now, if you create a thread telling your Salyut jammed, the same hasselbladists will comment "pff, a piece of crap" "can be used only as doorstep" "not worth"

Zenit are low-tech cameras, which doesn't mean low quality. But on purpose they were built simple, easy to repair (at a time there were repair shops around and lot of fotomesters in SSSR), otherwise very durable structurally. It's a whole one block of aluminium cast, you can drive over it with the car. It's to cameras what Lada Niva is to cars, or what Kalashnikov AK-47 is to rifles.
Soviet ideology was to manufacture for most people, plus some more advanced stuff for professional, scientific and military use, typically with no frills. They were not going to produce luxury capitalist items, it was SSSR.

Now it's about what you want.
when i decided to stop digital camera and go back to analogue, I wanted really back to basics: my eyes, my brain, an external meter usable with any analogue camera, and a purely mechanical camera. So I opted for a Zenit-V. No fancy split prism just plain ground glass in a clear viewfinder, no meter, solid, not afraid to be carried outdoors and take a beating, easily replacable, vast choice of M42 lenses.

over the years I got other bodies that came with lenses I was buying, so I have a Spotmatic F, a Yashica FX3, an old Ricoh, a M42 Miranda, a Zenit-122, an old Practika, a Minolta, but when weather and film combo aren't extreme, ie. I will not need slow speeds, I take the Zenit-V.
With such basic camera I know that if a picture is good it's because it was me who took it, not a damn embedded operating system with magic idiotsproof AF and graphic processor.

I did slight ergomonic tweaks: bore holes and epoxy glue lugs for straps, replace the top wheels with the ones of the Zenit-3M, the speeds wheel of the 3M instead of the native black one, winding lever of the 3M too which needs a frankensteinization with dremel. epoxy and metallic paint, and an ISO reminder wheel on the rewind knob:

IMG_0007.JPG



compared with the 3M and the regular V:

IMG_0006.JPG





when I will travel very compact and light yet want an SLR and couple lenses, I take the Zenit-S or the Zenit-3. The 3 feels very nice in the hand, not as small as the S but smaller than the B/E(n)/1x, very smooth and silent.
I overcame the limitation in lenses availability by making custom Adaptall-M39 and Soligor-M39 adapters, as well as modifying couple M42 lenses to M39.
For instance the 3 with a Mir-20 in M39:

IMG_0011.JPG



with a Tamron 28-80mm, here besides the V with a Soligor 105mm:

IMG_0009.JPG



or a Tamron 90-210mm :

IMG_0010.JPG



my preferred SLR, it has 1s to 1/1000s speeds, is the Start:

IMG_0014.JPG



it has a film cutter, and takes receiving cartridges, so very easy to shot for instance 12 or 18 frames on a 36 roll, cut and develop, keep the rest for another session. Can be done in the dark with any camera: open the door in the dark, cut film with scissors, but with the Start and receiving cartridges you can swap rolls while on the go real fast. The viewfinder is small like on the Zenit, but typically I see what is outside the VF frame before I frame and can do accordingly, and it is so clear, ground glass with a wide split-circle, it's a delight.

Typically there are the usual complains about only the Helios-44 for it. At least in western Europe people seem to not be aware it did sell with a Start-M39 adapter so all the ZM39 lenses can be used after you get adapter (that not easy.... but i have four such adapters) Of course lenses without the fancy "auto" PAD button but who needs that really. With the M39 adapter then like my Zenit-s, 3, 3M, I can use my hacked M42 enses. For instance the Mir-20:

IMG_0013.JPG
 

AgX

Member
Joined
Apr 5, 2007
Messages
29,990
Location
Germany
Format
Multi Format
You raised some important points regarding that criticism on soviet photo gear.

You already hinted at typically better servicing of non-soviet cameras. I am not sure whether that actually is generally true except for some high-price models.

Another, related point though is whether a camera was bad designed or manufactured from the start or not. Or with other words was there ever any camera designed for a (unserviced) life expectancy of 50 years?
I think if that lifetime was reached it rather was due to coincidences as by accident chosing for a chemical compound that did not disintegrate after 50 years...


Concerning your modifications: you exchanged the winder seemingly to achieve better ergonomics, however you seemingly chose the silver exposure-time knob for better look. But the black version is better readable...
 
Last edited:

StepheKoontz

Member
Joined
Dec 4, 2018
Messages
801
Location
Doraville
Format
Medium Format
Zenit but also Fed, Zorki, sold outside SSSR weren't maintained like expensive german and japanese cameras...

I can say I've never had any of my Japanese SLR's serviced. EVER. I have a couple of OM-1 and an OM-2n and neither has had anything other than film and batteries put in them. I bought all of them privately off the original owners so I know the history. Obviously when talking about Leica and maybe 'blads people service them more, but the vast majority only go to a shop when they are broken. I have bought brand new Soviet era cameras that were non-functional out of the box and a Kiev 60 I bought brand new was assembled with a cracked main frame. While these are interesting cameras and some do work OK, many of the don't, fail quickly or have basic problems like shutter banding and capping which other brands don't experience, ever.
 

Huss

Member
Joined
Feb 11, 2016
Messages
9,068
Location
Hermosa Beach, CA
Format
Multi Format
Yeah saying Zenits are like AKs, they are built to take a beating and just work - well that's fanciful thinking. I've had three Zenits - TTL, 12sd and 212K. And they all have had issues. The TTL and 12SD were delivered with porous shutters, as if they had tiny pinholes in them. And their shutters also capped. And of course the lightmeters were, well, suggestive the way a drunk is in a bar.
Put a battery in either of them, and the battery cap would not close firmly, it would just fall off. It's why so many for sale are missing that part. The viewfinder that shows only 60% of the actual image is cute too. Imagine that - an SLR with less accurate framing than a basic P&S camera!

My 212K has been ok, apart from the light meter which seems all over the place. But the indestructible quality (does that count for anything if what is indestructible is already defective?) is missing with the plastic body.
 

removedacct2

Member
Joined
May 26, 2018
Messages
366
I can say I've never had any of my Japanese SLR's serviced. EVER.

was comparing the Fed and Zorki with the equivalent mechanically wise of which they are derivated, Leica II/III, which in japanese were the Nicca and Canon RF. Next mechanical generation of japanese cameras, their early SLR of Pentax, Miranda, etc, need some servicing after a while/lot of usage too, like a poor Zenit.
Buyers of expensive stuff used to do service in case of need, users of cheap soviet stuff in Western Europe used to discard in case of a malfunction.
Here I hold two japaneses, one fixed one to do. A Spotmatic I got for almost nothing because it was stuck with curtains moving only occasionnally, I opened it and it was the old lubricant, it took some time but it's now working nice at all speeds. A Miranda I got for nothing the other day, I ran a test roll and it's banding at low speeds plus the mirror is randomely erratic (had to unscrew the lens and lower it with the finger for 1/3 of the 36 exp of the roll), will fix it when I'll have some time.

a simple google search: https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=spotmatic+repair

IMG_0868.JPG





Yeah saying Zenits are like AKs, they are built to take a beating and just work - well that's fanciful thinking. I've had three Zenits - TTL, 12sd and 212K. And they all have had issues. The TTL and 12SD were delivered with porous shutters, as if they had tiny pinholes in them. And their shutters also capped. And of course the lightmeters were, well, suggestive the way a drunk is in a bar.

you got cameras that were not kept well and had already issues. Pinholes in curtains are common on old rangefinders, but not on SLR with instant mirror return, so something has been wrong long time ago. Lightmeters problems are typically related corrosion somewhere. Otherwise the Zenit is build around a single block of aluminium cast, it's structurally very solid, for instance shutter can go wrong after a wrong manipulation with just two fingers (set shutter before cocking) but won't be affected if you drop the camera or drive over it with a car.

we can play i game, you bring links documenting Zenit problems, and I bring links documenting Canon, Nikkon, Pentax problems. For instance at random, Nikkon FM and lightmeter:
https://www.photo.net/discuss/threads/nikon-fm-faulty-light-meter.447701/

an issue on a Zenit and people "oh it's crap", a problem on a Nikkon or Canon or Pentax and "I brought it to service and it's now working. Good camera" .... You won't send a Zenit to service, it will cost much more than what you paid for the camera.
 

Attachments

  • IMG_0870.JPG
    IMG_0870.JPG
    46.1 KB · Views: 51

Alan Johnson

Subscriber
Joined
Nov 16, 2004
Messages
3,221
Here is a site which suggests the average monthly disposable salary is 5 times more in the US than in Russia:
https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/Russia/United-States/Cost-of-living
If this is true it is quite likely the situation was similarly 5:1 in the era of the Soviet Union.
So they had to make a camera that cost 1/5 th of the price of cameras sold in the US.
From that point of view it is hardly surprising that they were not as sophisticated as cameras produced in the West.
I have had a few Zenits from the 3M to the 122 but these days most Western produced SLRs can be bought for a fraction of their original cost and present better value.
 
Last edited:

perkeleellinen

Subscriber
Joined
Apr 14, 2008
Messages
2,899
Location
Warwickshire
Format
35mm
You won't send a Zenit to service, it will cost much more than what you paid for the camera.

Ten years ago a camera repairer told me this about a Nikon FM2!

Back in the 1990s the parents of a friend did send their Zenit to repair - a mirror lockup issue.

Back in the 1990s I worked in quality control for a large car parts factory. That firm was in its glory days in the 1950s and 1960s, back then there was no quality control. The practice was to say sorry and give another component free when something was returned faulty. I think most of British manufacturing took this philosophy during the high profit years. Only after Japanese import penetration did British manufacturers take quality seriously and adopted the Deming model. It was too late for the British motorcycle industry.

Soviet manufacturing, immune from competition and import penetration may have followed the older quality model of replacement. Or by making components very simple assuming the user will work on them.

Lastly, on Soviet workers being drunk, I can say that in the British factory I worked in there were many who drank throughout the day and a generation before me it was usual to have two pints of beer during the one hour dinner break.
 

AgX

Member
Joined
Apr 5, 2007
Messages
29,990
Location
Germany
Format
Multi Format
Here is a site which suggests the average monthly disposable salary is 5 times more in the US than in Russia:
https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/Russia/United-States/Cost-of-living
If this is true it is quite likely the situation was similarly 5:1 in the era of the Soviet Union.
So they had to make a camera that cost 1/5 th of the price of cameras sold in the US.
From that point of view it is hardly surprising that they were not as sophisticated as cameras produced in the West.
I have had a few Zenits from the 3M to the 122 but these days most Western produced SLRs can be bought for a fraction of their original cost and present better value.

In your calculation you miss that wages for manufacturing the Zenit were lower too...

A great deal of the Zenits were exported, so your argument on the soviet consumer falls short to some extent, it rather was intended for the soviet consumer too. It would be interesting to learn about its exact export quota.

But the production of about 10million samples already should give an idea...
 

AgX

Member
Joined
Apr 5, 2007
Messages
29,990
Location
Germany
Format
Multi Format
Soviet manufacturing, immune from competition and import penetration may have followed the older quality model of replacement.

As posted above the Zenit was made for export.
And thus had to compete with what was on offer on those markets.
 

Kino

Subscriber
Joined
Jan 20, 2006
Messages
7,599
Location
Orange, Virginia
Format
Multi Format
Cameras are somewhat like dogs.

Treat them with disdain and abuse, they will eventually bite you.

A little bit of respect and care, and they will try their best to please you.
 

Huss

Member
Joined
Feb 11, 2016
Messages
9,068
Location
Hermosa Beach, CA
Format
Multi Format
was comparing the Fed and Zorki with the equivalent mechanically wise of which they are derivated, Leica II/III, which in japanese were the Nicca and Canon RF. Next mechanical generation of japanese cameras, their early SLR of Pentax, Miranda, etc, need some servicing after a while/lot of usage too, like a poor Zenit.
Buyers of expensive stuff used to do service in case of need, users of cheap soviet stuff in Western Europe used to discard in case of a malfunction.
Here I hold two japaneses, one fixed one to do. A Spotmatic I got for almost nothing because it was stuck with curtains moving only occasionnally, I opened it and it was the old lubricant, it took some time but it's now working nice at all speeds. A Miranda I got for nothing the other day, I ran a test roll and it's banding at low speeds plus the mirror is randomely erratic (had to unscrew the lens and lower it with the finger for 1/3 of the 36 exp of the roll), will fix it when I'll have some time.

a simple google search: https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=spotmatic+repair

View attachment 266171






you got cameras that were not kept well and had already issues. Pinholes in curtains are common on old rangefinders, but not on SLR with instant mirror return, so something has been wrong long time ago. Lightmeters problems are typically related corrosion somewhere. Otherwise the Zenit is build around a single block of aluminium cast, it's structurally very solid, for instance shutter can go wrong after a wrong manipulation with just two fingers (set shutter before cocking) but won't be affected if you drop the camera or drive over it with a car.

we can play i game, you bring links documenting Zenit problems, and I bring links documenting Canon, Nikkon, Pentax problems. For instance at random, Nikkon FM and lightmeter:
https://www.photo.net/discuss/threads/nikon-fm-faulty-light-meter.447701/

an issue on a Zenit and people "oh it's crap", a problem on a Nikkon or Canon or Pentax and "I brought it to service and it's now working. Good camera" .... You won't send a Zenit to service, it will cost much more than what you paid for the camera.

Actually all my Zenits looked great, even smelled good.

The reality is they just suck compared to what was being manufactured in Japan and elsewhere. If they didn't they would have been used by professional photographers all over the world. But for some reason they instead used Nikon, Canon, Pentax etc. If Zenits were any good those would have been used.

When I was a kid Zenits were sold new in England. Even then they were seen as the thing you got only if you had to have a new camera and couldn't afford anything else.
Trying to re-write history that they actually were good is just that.

edit:

the one thing I really like is they know how to make lenses. I bought my 212K for the lens that came with it, and use that on my Pentaxes.
 
Last edited:

Kino

Subscriber
Joined
Jan 20, 2006
Messages
7,599
Location
Orange, Virginia
Format
Multi Format
Well in that same vein, has anyone ever asked you, :"man, what camera body did you use to shoot that?"...
 

AgX

Member
Joined
Apr 5, 2007
Messages
29,990
Location
Germany
Format
Multi Format
Even then they were seen as the thing you got only if you had to have a new camera and couldn't afford anything else.
Trying to re-write history that they actually were good is just that.

-) "good" is a ambiguous term. Do you mean good in working as they should, or good in the meaning of having certain features?

-) What is wrong with marketing a SLR for people wo cannot or want not to spent the amount of money other manufacturers asked?

Kodak and Agfa practically only marketed cameras for the budget market and no one blames them. But KMZ is blamed for that, even accused of having drunk workers.
 

MattKing

Moderator
Moderator
Joined
Apr 24, 2005
Messages
51,936
Location
Delta, BC Canada
Format
Medium Format
If they didn't they would have been used by professional photographers all over the world. But for some reason they instead used Nikon, Canon, Pentax etc.
This is really an inappropriate metric.
The vast majority of people don't need to have a camera that will withstand the rigours of professional use.
The vast majority of people need a camera that will be reliable and perform well at each vacation, holiday, dinner party and birthday party that is expected to occur in the next few years.
For most people, during its day, an Instamatic 124 filled the bill quite well. And for the keeners, an Instamatic 314.
 

AgX

Member
Joined
Apr 5, 2007
Messages
29,990
Location
Germany
Format
Multi Format
Not necessarily.

It depends on the economic situation. In times when there was not much foreign competition, manufacturers like Zeiss and Pentacon due the currency situation could export their high quality products at lesser prices into "hard-currency" countries than competitors with similar products.

But even they already in the 60's had strong price-competition from Japan.
 

AgX

Member
Joined
Apr 5, 2007
Messages
29,990
Location
Germany
Format
Multi Format
The reality is [the Zenits] just suck compared to what was being manufactured in Japan and elsewhere. If they didn't they would have been used by professional photographers all over the world. But for some reason they instead used Nikon, Canon, Pentax etc. If Zenits were any good those would have been used.

Not all press photographers could afford "Nikon, Canon, Pentax etc." , or even had no access to them at all.
Many used Praktikas, Pentacon Sixes and... Zenits.
 

Huss

Member
Joined
Feb 11, 2016
Messages
9,068
Location
Hermosa Beach, CA
Format
Multi Format
Not all press photographers could afford "Nikon, Canon, Pentax etc." , or even had no access to them at all.
Many used Praktikas, Pentacon Sixes and... Zenits.

Because they could not afford nor had access to decent equipment, doesn't make the equipment they had to use any better. Having no choice in the matter does not elevate what is being used.
 

AgX

Member
Joined
Apr 5, 2007
Messages
29,990
Location
Germany
Format
Multi Format
But above you reasoned them not being good because not not being bought.
And buying something by lack of choice does not necessarily mean it is bad.
 

Huss

Member
Joined
Feb 11, 2016
Messages
9,068
Location
Hermosa Beach, CA
Format
Multi Format
But above you reasoned them not being good because not not being bought.
And buying something by lack of choice does not necessarily mean it is bad.

I have three Zenits.

They are bad.

So why do I have them? For the novelty of remembering when these were sold new when I was a kid.
 

AgX

Member
Joined
Apr 5, 2007
Messages
29,990
Location
Germany
Format
Multi Format
My point was that we can discuss the quality of a camera. But our arguments should remain logic. And your argument about the Zenit being bought or not, was not logic.

Concerning japanese cameras, they were long time just not on the market here. I guess so too for Britain, with their import restrictions.
 
Photrio.com contains affiliate links to products. We may receive a commission for purchases made through these links.
To read our full affiliate disclosure statement please click Here.

PHOTRIO PARTNERS EQUALLY FUNDING OUR COMMUNITY:



Ilford ADOX Freestyle Photographic Stearman Press Weldon Color Lab Blue Moon Camera & Machine
Top Bottom