Zeiss Super Ikonta IV - Poor film advance.

[Worker 11811]

Just took my Super Ikonta out for a spin. Everything seemed to work all right but, after developing the film, I discovered that it doesn't advance the film properly.

All the frames are bunched up and overlap by about 1/8 to 1/4 inch on each end.
There was about 8 inches of unexposed film at the end of the roll.

Now, I know that I probably didn't load the film right. I didn't notice the white lines at the right end of the film gate when I loaded so I wound the arrows on the film leader until they came to the leading edge of the gate. I guess that is where about a frame and a half of film got chopped off at the beginning. That'll account for how much film? 3 or 4 inches?

My Yashica leaves about a 3/8 inch gap between frames. I figure 12 times 0.375 in. (3/8") comes to 4.5 in. If I include my screw-up, that puts me in the ballpark, anyway.

So, do you think I did anything else to screw up loading the camera or is there something wrong with the frame advance knob or the film counter linkage?

I read that there is a difference in the thickness of film that was produced in the 1940's and 1950's as compared to what is made today. That might account for SOME of the difference but not all.

I also read that old Ikontas often have problems with film advance. Is this true?j
What is the nature of this problem?

Is this something that's repairable by a reasonably skilled person working at home or is it strictly something an experienced repair man should do?

Yes, I know... There are two kinds of people who would take apart an antique pocket watch: Watchmakers and fools.

Let's frame the question this way: On a scale of 1 to 5, how difficult is it?
(1 meaning "easy" and 5 meaning "don't try this at home.")

To be honest, I'm probably going to send this camera in to be worked on by a pro. The thing is in almost "line new" condition. But for the selenium cell, it could easily rate a "4" out of "5." I'm not hip on taking apart a vintage camera that, properly cared for, could be worth more than $500.

(Yes, yes! I know it's hard to put values on vintage cameras. It's hyperbole, referring to the fact that this is a somewhat rare, vintage camera in really good condition and I don't want to f*** it up.)

I don't have a lot of money to spend and I want to maximize my repair budget by fixing minor problems at home if it is possible. That's all.

 

[P C Headland]

The Super Ikonta III and IV will often have tight or slightly overlapping frames, even when loaded right. You can either advance the film a little further passed the start marks before closing the back, or "pad" the take-up spool out with a couple of turns of old backing paper.

The start marks line up with the counter reset on the right, about 1 cm in from the right hand film roller (take-up side).

Hope this helps.

 

[R gould]

Don't know much about the super ikonta's. but every old folder I have that has automatic film advance has the red window, and I ignore the auto wind and use the red window, film from 50 years+ ago had thicker backing paper, and the film itself was thicker, and the advance was designed for that, so if you can use red window then I suggest you do that,use the numbers on the film backing paper, also, the normal starting was, in the cameras I have, to wind on to the number 1 t start,Richard,

 

[jp80874]

You might find interesting reading over at the rangefinderforum.com.
They have a forum within devoted to 120mm folders. http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?forumid=93

I am new to folders and don’t profess more knowledge than I have read here and there. For confirmation, both of the suggestions mentioned above are often repeated there. Another idea that might help is that you should advance the film just before you are ready to take the next picture rather than just after you have taken the first. The logic is that in these old folders the film is not held tightly wound in place. If your next picture is some time in the future the film may move around a bit and not be tight. This can cause some overlap of image as well as blurred focus. If your images have good focus the above mentioned ideas are more likely the problem.

John Powers

 

[ninjarider]

Hi,
I had an Super Ikonta 3 with a similar issue. I was told it had to do with the difference in film/paper thickness. I got overlaps if i didn't wind the film far enough before closing tha camera back because then the diameter of the take up spool was to small. When I wound the film far enough befor closing I got the frames together but no big overlap. One tip I got but didn't try was to put some tape on the take up spool thus creating a bigger diameter.

 

[Worker 11811]

I've been doing some research. I think I understand what you're saying.

First, I didn't wind the film leader far enough. Second, film is thinner. A "one-two punch."

I think I'm going to try another roll. I'll pad the take up spool with a couple-three layers of gaffer's tape and I'll make sure I wind the film on far enough to get that extra lap of leader around the spool. Hoping that will solve the problem or, at least, alleviate it to a degree.

I really like this camera. I like the way it feels and the way it works. I like the synchronized aperture/shutter. I like the fact that it is a 120 film camera with a form factor that I'm more used to. I like my Yashica and Roleicord but I grew up on 35mm cameras so that is what I'm most familiar with. I am adjusting to using the TLRs but I have to be in the right mood. I think this camera will be a good "go between" for me.

This is probably going to be one that I send in for CLA and keep as a shooter.

Thanks for the help! It's clear that I've got a lot of studying ahead of me!

 

[elekm]

With the Super Ikonta III and IV, you can't use the red window to align the frames, because it's simply a 1/16-inch dot. Plus, you will need to disable the autoframing and double-exposure mechanism.