Zeiss Ikon

[ColColt]

So, do you think this is worth $1000? Described as near mint.

 

[Theo Sulphate]

 

[HiHoSilver]

I was made aware of this unit & had interest until I saw the prices.

 

[Theo Sulphate]

You've probably read the reviews of it on the net. Originally, It was about $1400-$1600. It seems nice, but it's an orphan now and it's electronic - not sure who'd be able to repair it or get parts. Maybe that wouldn't be an issue; it seems very nicely built.

In the last few years I've been moving to all-manual no-electronics cameras.

 

[ColColt]

That one the one thing I was a bit skittish of-repairs and parts availability. With four range finders I really needed another.

 

[cuthbert]

These cameras are good, I wouldn't worry about the electronics, the shutter should be the traditional Copal you can find on many SLR.

I find it aesthetically pleasing, unlike the Bessas that IMO are a little ugly.

 

[ColColt]

I rather like their looks as much as the Leica. It seems most of the offers for these cameras are from Japan on ebay.

 

[Ko.Fe.]

Dead and unsupported brand by now. Has its quirks, if you google it.

 

[John Koehrer]

These cameras are good, I wouldn't worry about the electronics, the shutter should be the traditional Copal you can find on many SLR.

I find it aesthetically pleasing, unlike the Bessas that IMO are a little ugly.

DOA without a battery Shutter is electronically controlled

 

[cuthbert]

DOA without a battery Shutter is electronically controlled

Yes the shutter is electronic and that's normal as the camera is an aperture priority.

 

[ColColt]

Just like my beloved Pentax 6x7 but alas, I've learned to keep a spare battery.

 

[cooltouch]

For that price, I could buy an M4, or even an M6 if I'm being a smart shopper.

 

[cuthbert]

For that price, I could buy an M4, or even an M6 if I'm being a smart shopper.

True but the Zeiss Ikon offers aperture priority and has a good lightmeter, not to mention that it has a backdoor.

 

[Theo Sulphate]

It's attractive, but fundamentally gives you little better than what you get with your M2 or M4.

If you're looking for something different than what you already have, seriously investigate and consider a Mamiya 7. They are expensive, but definitely worth it. You won't be disappointed with the viewfinder or rangefinder patch either: I found it superior to my M3's and M6's; it's the best I've ever seen.

6x7 format isn't too shabby either (as you know) - the Mamiya 7 would be totally different from your P67.

 

[Huss]

Ahh the Zeiss Ikon ZM. Made by Cosina with the same electronics and shutter assembly as the Vivitar V3800/Nikon Fm10. Not sure how happy I would be to pay $1000K a camera that shares bit with $100 ones.

Get a Leica. M5 or M4. Or M3. Or M2...

 

[cuthbert]

Ahh the Zeiss Ikon ZM. Made by Cosina with the same electronics and shutter assembly as the Vivitar V3800/Nikon Fm10. Not sure how happy I would be to pay $1000K a camera that shares bit with $100 ones.

Get a Leica. M5 or M4. Or M3. Or M2...

Same used in the Leica M7, perhaps you aren't aware of that.

Or perhaps you think Leica developed the electronic of the M7 internally..just as they have designed the Leicaflex R3 and R4.

Besides that the FM10 has a mechanical shutter like the Bessa M, not the Zeiss Ikon.

 

[NortheastPhotographic]

Ahh the Zeiss Ikon ZM. Made by Cosina with the same electronics and shutter assembly as the Vivitar V3800/Nikon Fm10. Not sure how happy I would be to pay $1000K a camera that shares bit with $100 ones.

Get a Leica. M5 or M4. Or M3. Or M2...

And spend the next few years thinking you have a 1000th of a second shutter where in reality you're probably at 750th, and steadily slowing. Then get an external meter. Then have it CLA'd in perpetuity while insisting that it's got the 'best build quality'. Then use a 28mm le....OH! You need an external finder for that! Also don't take the lens cap off in the sunshine you'll burn a hole in the shutter. SO RELIABLE!

Leica's are fine little cameras but this snobbery concerning newer models that don't require luxury branding has got to stop. The ZI is an improvement over the M7 in every way. WAY better finder, easier to load, better integrated AE system, faster max shutter speed, more accurate RF, and cheaper. Are they immune to issues? Of course not, but Leica people are always complaining about the M7 for reliability. Leica's are reliable if you only shoot negative film and don't care much about precise exposure.

I test cameras for a living and FM10s have a more reliable shutter than MPs from just 5-8 years ago. I'd happily trade that crappy horizontal cloth shutter (that every other brand smartly ditched years ago) for one that works and works accurately. I would say 80-90% of the Leica's I test have a slow shutter, even the newer models. Most of the 'cheap' SLRs have rock solid shutter reliability. FM10s are shitty cameras but it's not because of the shutter. FM2Ns are the MOST reliable camera I've tested, and they manage 4000ths of a second and do so accurately decades after production.

And this all hinges on the idea that what you're claiming is true, which you cannot possibly know unless you work for Cosina. Cosina has made many different models and items for many brands. The FM10 has a mechanical shutter, the ZI does not. Are you SURE they're the same? Prove it.

I will say that the Leica looks better on the seat of a Mercedes or next to an espresso as you take instagram pictures of it. Can't take that away from Leica. (Full disclosure, I shoot, and Love, my Leica M 240

 

[ColColt]

I have the M2, M3 and M4 along with the Pentax 6x7. What more could a guy want? Something different to play with. That's why I even looked at the Zeiss. I don't care for the Leica 240 or any Leica digital camera...too thick and way too expensive. I'm not crazy enough to buy a $6500 camera that just does B&W and gives you no film-IMHO.

 

[Ashfaque]

I have the M2, M3 and M4 along with the Pentax 6x7. What more could a guy want? Something different to play with. That's why I even looked at the Zeiss. I don't care for the Leica 240 or any Leica digital camera...too thick and way too expensive. I'm not crazy enough to buy a $6500 camera that just does B&W and gives you no film-IMHO.

ColColt, I think it's time you get a large format system, or buy another MF system.

But if you desire Zeiss Ikon, I think you'll love it's wonderfully large and bright viewfinder. Make sure you're buying one that is mechanically perfect. As others have indicated, so long you can service it (assuming you'll be using it at least for a few years), it should be fine. If it's operating properly, you can even sell it around that price.* ZI price seems to have gone up since early 2015, but not sure why. Perhaps, more point and shoot or analogue newbies arr buying them up and raising their 2nd hand prices.

* Bear in mind that if you buy something that is not operating properly and spend another $200-300 for CLA, and you don't like it, then this could be an annoying thing later. I hate when I have to think about opportunity cost all the time.

 

[ColColt]

I suppose I should have gotten one of those before they went belly up.I did like the looks of them and what I had read about the viewfinder. Well, maybe I should just be happy with what I have, and I surely am but, sometimes you get a GAS attack that you feel just must be scratched.

 

[Theo Sulphate]

I have the M2, M3 and M4 along with the Pentax 6x7. What more could a guy want? Something different to play with. ...

So the Mamiya 7 I mentioned earlier doesn't attract you? Until I actually saw and handled one, I didn't realize just how good they are.

 

[ColColt]

Not really but I've never see one up close, only pictures. I like the Pentax 6x7 as it handles just like a 35mm on steroids.

 

[Huss]

The ZI is an improvement over the M7 in every way. WAY better finder, easier to load, better integrated AE system, faster max shutter speed, more accurate RF, and cheaper. Are they immune to issues? Of course not, but Leica people are always complaining about the M7 for reliability. Leica's are reliable if you only shoot negative film and don't care much about precise exposure.

The issues I have had with the ZI - you need to center your eye perfectly in the VF if you do not want to watch the RF patch fade away. The integrated AE system is worse than in the M7. It is biased to the lower left edge of the frame. M7 is essentially a large spot meter. I nail exposures with my M7 that I miss with my F6 with its all seeing all dancing 3D color matrix metering system which is useless in back lit conditions. The shutter speed read out in the ZI is hard to see in certain lighting conditions. The Zi is built to a much lighter standard and not resistant to impact the way a Leica is. The M7 holds the shutter speed with just a half push of the shutter release button - which you can then dial more or less aperture in if you want. ZI you need to push a separate button.
For my usage the M7 is a much better camera. For my money, I'd pick an M5 in a heart beat over the ZI, and have. Not just because it is a Leica, but because the feature set and build is much better for my usage. The spot metering on the M5 to me is much handier than AE exposure with a weird pattern that the ZI has.

FYI I also use Nikon FM2, F2 , FE2 etc (as well as F6) and my favourite out of those is the FE2 and FM2. Insane value for money, perfect metering patterns - much better than the ZI - and much better built than a ZI. For the money that a used ZI is going for now, I'd pick either a used Leica, or save huge money and get a used Nikon FM2/FE2 which I find just as enjoyable to use as a Leica.

I actually preferred my Bessa R3A to the ZI because of the 1:1 VF, the manual frame adjust (so I could use LTM lenses with any adapter), and the fact that it was so cheap used that IMO it was not in the same market segment as a Leica product.

p.s. I do love my M240 too, so at least we have that in common.

 

[ColColt]

I looked at the Bessa R3A as well but it too has went under...reckon I"ll stick to the Leica. You'd be hard pressed to do better in terms of build quality and a great RF patch. Moreover, I doubt there's any quieter than the M's. My M3 particularly sounds like a fly breaking wind!!

 

[John Koehrer]

Another nice RF with the attributes of Zeiss and Leica is the Konica Hexar RF. But like
the other Cosina made machines. No longer made.