Zeiss Ikon 524/2 6x9 Shutter release problem

LyleB · Nov 19, 2013

Hey all,

I recently got a Mess Ikonta from Certo6 via ebay. It's a pretty nice camera, and I think I'll like shooting with it, but I have one problem with it, and wonder if it's something worth sending back to Jurgen for adjustment/repair, or is it one of those features that never really worked well and I should just work around it.

The problem I have is that anywhere from 30% to 60% of the time, the shutter release does not actually trigger the shutter. It isn't pushing the shutter mounted release far enough to trigger it. Strangely, holding the camera for a vertical shot makes it much less reliable than if it is held horizontally. It fires fine if I press the release directly with my finger. Not the most convenient thing, but a viable work-around for the very finicky remote shutter release. Not talking about the double exposure protection, I'm aware of that.

It seems like a pretty primitive and clunky mechanism, so I wouldn't be surprised if folks just bypass it.

What has been your experience? Should I expect this release to work dependably? Or should I just accept that it wasn't the best designed feature and work around it?

I haven't contacted Jurgen yet, just thought I'd find out your experience with this camera and whether this is a common problem.

jstout · Nov 19, 2013

Keep sending them back until he sends you a good one. Caveat emptor.

Pioneer · Nov 19, 2013

Contact Jurgen. He will adjust it for you so that it works properly. He is a very reliable seller and stands by his cameras.

The shutter mechanisms on these folding cameras are often a bit finicky. They are trying to mechanically transfer the action of pressing the shutter on the top plate out to a lens/shutter mechanism sitting out on the end of a deployed bellows. This mechanism has to be sturdy enough to reliable transfer the mechanical action while also being engineered in such a way that they can fold up when the bellows is closed.

I will point out one thing you should be aware of that can cause problems. These cameras have a primitive form of double exposure prevention that usually blocks the shutter action until the film is advanced. If you forget to advance the film and then press hard on the shutter button expecting the shutter to fire, it can bend the rods and bars so they can no longer work reliably even when everything is done correctly. Once you do get your mechanism adjusted remember to advance the film and cock your shutter before pressing the shutter button.

LyleB · Nov 19, 2013

Thanks, yes I'm aware of the double exposure lock. This isn't the problem. The shutter release mechanism depresses, and moves as it should, it just doesn't move far enough to actuate the actual shutter lever, at least not reliably.

I'll go ahead and email Jurgen. Sounds like you guys think this should be a reliable mechanism.

ntenny · Nov 20, 2013

I'm going to differ with the hive mind and say that this is within typical parameters for the Ikonta/Nettar family. The shutter linkage is a little fiddly and sometimes doesn't provide enough pressure. Of the two Nettars I use regularly, one almost always fires, the other maybe 70% of the time; but that one is a 6x6, and my hand is big enough to reach around and trip the shutter directly without changing the grip. That's unlikely to work on a 6x9 unless you have E.T.'s fingers.

Jurgen may know if there's an easy adjustment to tune the linkage slightly. You could also just tape a little shim in place to increase the amount of "push" fractionally.

-NT

LyleB · Nov 20, 2013

Well, I sent an email to Jurgen late last night. Got a reply this morning at 9 Am. He had a couple of suggestions I could attempt myself, but said to return it to him if they didn't work and he would repair it.

I spent about two minutes to try his suggestion (simple clockwise turn of the shutter - just a "smidge" as he instructed. I didn't think it had even moved, but I can now fire the shutter no matter what position the camera is in. About 20 to 30 fires without a single failure. I'm betting the problem is solved.

Thanks for your opinions. I just wanted to get back and let you know that Jurgen responded quickly, accurately diagnosed what was wrong via email, and offered an effective and simple solution.

Now I get to go out and do some playing. Unfortunately, the weather is supposed to be COLD here this weekend.

My opinion of Jurgen is "Good Guy".

pbromaghin · Nov 20, 2013

I have an Ikonta 6x6 and have had occasional trouble with that mechanism. If the lens/shutter doesn't completely lock on opening the paddle doesn't always match right with the trigger. I can imagine it could be a lot harder with the 6x9 simply due to the length. Good to hear it turned out well.

I almost bid against you for that camera, btw.

Pioneer · Nov 20, 2013

LyleB said:
Well, I sent an email to Jurgen late last night. Got a reply this morning at 9 Am. He had a couple of suggestions I could attempt myself, but said to return it to him if they didn't work and he would repair it.

I spent about two minutes to try his suggestion (simple clockwise turn of the shutter - just a "smidge" as he instructed. I didn't think it had even moved, but I can now fire the shutter no matter what position the camera is in. About 20 to 30 fires without a single failure. I'm betting the problem is solved.

Thanks for your opinions. I just wanted to get back and let you know that Jurgen responded quickly, accurately diagnosed what was wrong via email, and offered an effective and simple solution.

Now I get to go out and do some playing. Unfortunately, the weather is supposed to be COLD here this weekend.

My opinion of Jurgen is "Good Guy".

I also think Jurgen is a good guy.

elekm · Nov 20, 2013

I was going to mention that you should rotate the lens/shutter assembly until the release lever on the side of the shutter is pressed against the small tab that is hinged to the lens door.

You do this by grasping the entire assembly firmly and turning to the right. But you have to be careful to not twist any other part, especially the struts that secure the lens door.

JPD · Nov 23, 2013

Nice that you could fix it yourself, LyleB.

elekm said:
I was going to mention that you should rotate the lens/shutter assembly until the release lever on the side of the shutter is pressed against the small tab that is hinged to the lens door.

You do this by grasping the entire assembly firmly and turning to the right. But you have to be careful to not twist any other part, especially the struts that secure the lens door.

Often you'll need to loosen the lens/shutter assembly retaining ring inside the bellows to do this, if it's tight, and then tighten it again after you have rotated the shutter.

LyleB · Nov 23, 2013

JPD said:
Nice that you could fix it yourself, LyleB.

Often you'll need to loosen the lens/shutter assembly retaining ring inside the bellows to do this, if it's tight, and then tighten it again after you have rotated the shutter.

Yeah, that was his second suggestion, if the shutter was too tight for a simple twist to work.

His third suggestion was to slightly bend the linkage on the camera body, but he cautioned that it would be difficult to do safely with out removing it first. He suggested that I send it back to him if that were required, and he would take care of it.

Peter G-falk · Jul 9, 2023

I started reading this thread about the unresponsive trigger of a Zeiss Mess Ikonta (or just plain Ikonta M). I read it all, but didn't find anything that would help in my particular case. It just kept on not firing.
How ever, I found a screw that was part of the link between the trigger on top of the camera, going to the shutter assembly at the end of the extended bellows. It's in the lower left corner, if the opened camera is viewed from the front. I loosened it a bit. Didn't take if off. Then I pressed the trigger and re tightened it again. After that the camera would fire everytime the trigger was pressed.

I suppose there are different models of the Ikonta M with different trigger linkage systems in them. This just happened to work for me.

I hope somebody will find this useful.

pbromaghin · Jul 10, 2023

I have 2 523's that used to work, but are both locked up tight. The winders will not turn to advance the film nor reset the double-exposure lock. The shutters are fine, and the little flipper (retained by the screw) will actuate the long black lever coming from that screw to trigger them, but the button mechanisms will not move it.

Any ideas?

Peter G-falk · Jul 16, 2023

Peter G-falk said:
I started reading this thread about the unresponsive trigger of a Zeiss Mess Ikonta (or just plain Ikonta M). I read it all, but didn't find anything that would help in my particular case. It just kept on not firing.
How ever, I found a screw that was part of the link between the trigger on top of the camera, going to the shutter assembly at the end of the extended bellows. It's in the lower left corner, if the opened camera is viewed from the front.View attachment 343297 I loosened it a bit. Didn't take if off. Then I pressed the trigger and re tightened it again. After that the camera would fire everytime the trigger was pressed.

I suppose there are different models of the Ikonta M with different trigger linkage systems in them. This just happened to work for me.

I hope somebody will find this useful.
View attachment 343298

WELL. . .
I tried this my self of course... But the next day, when I was going to use the camera to shoot some older cars. Then the trigger button did not work at all. All photos were taken by triggering the shutter by pressing on the last part of the linkage it self. This, as I'm sure you could all imagine, resulted in two frames with multiple exposures. So, I'm sorry to say, this way that I suggested, turned out to be quite worthless.
If anybody have an idea or link to somewhere with more ideas of how to solve this problem, I would be most grateful.

Zeiss Ikon 524/2 6x9 Shutter release problem

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