Zeiss and Leitz after WWII

[Diapositivo]

I knew about history, just didn't know about the technological exchange between Germany and Russia, which was a very interesting bit of information.

 

[georg16nik]

I know, Fabrizio. The times right before the end of WWl are very gray shaded area.
Since I mentioned Arri around Zeiss, some folks might wonder "who the heck" is Arri, so their website is http://www.arri.com/

 

[Monito]

So, far You haven't provided a single piece of information.

Wrong. (there was a url link here which no longer exists), (there was a url link here which no longer exists), (there was a url link here which no longer exists), (there was a url link here which no longer exists)

I have quoted quite a lot info and links since the start of the discussion and have proved that You post "Wrong" is in fact wrong. Your credentials are ?

Nah. You put your foot in your mouth. Just because you don't think Zeiss Distagon lenses are professional quality because they are made by Cosina in Japan and you think that Zeiss rangefinder cameras are "toy" because they are made by Cosina in Japan doesn't give you any credibility.

On the other hand your so-called information is just junk like "bubble gum machines". You can't counter the facts I've posted so you attack me personally.

 

[georg16nik]

Nah. You put your foot in your mouth. Just because you don't think Zeiss Distagon lenses are professional quality because they are made by Cosina in Japan and you think that Zeiss rangefinder cameras are "toy" because they are made by Cosina in Japan doesn't give you any credibility.

On the other hand your so-called information is just junk like "bubble gum machines". You can't counter the facts I've posted so you attack me personally.

1st, So far You have posted mostly, unsubstantiated interpretations
2nd, Zeiss products from Germany and Japan are having different types of warranty.
The premium Zeiss products from Cosina are not surprisingly with 3 years Carl Zeiss Extended Warranty
Dead Link Removed
The Zeiss Germany products are with ZEISS Limited Lifetime Transferable Warranty
http://www.zeiss.com/c1256bcf0020be5f/Contents-Frame/736a3da89d70c3dc85256cc60076a6c9

Monito, do You own a product made by Zeiss Germany or Cosina.
Have You ever needed to taste the 3 year warranty or the lifetime one?
Please, share with us how did it went?

Recently, I tried the lifetime warranty with my bino, made in the late 50's.
Zeiss Wetzlar replaced the worned out screw-in rubber eye cups, free of charge, they paid the shipping costs.
Now, Nikon and Canon warranties on sports optics is 25 years if I am not mistaken.
http://usa.canon.com/app/pdf/EducationSalesTerms.pdf
http://reviews.nikonusa.com/7022/7430/nikon-monarch-8x42-atb-reviews/reviews.htm

 

[Monito]

Modern photographic lenses are complex opto-electro-mechanical assemblies with many moving parts and electronic components. Binoculars are dead simple by comparison. That's the reason why the Zeiss lenses have three year warranties.

I have had a number of Canon cameras and lenses. I've never had to use the warranty on them. In fact, none of them have ever failed. I've either sold them on or still have them or they were stolen.

 

[georg16nik]

Valid point. Thou, the lifetime warranty is for their Riflescopes, Rangefinders, Spotting Scopes etc as well, I wouldn't call them dead simple..
But why Nikon and Canon doesn't offer such warranty for their sport optics?
Leica offers Limited Lifetime Warranty, however not transferable.

A manufacturer's warranty is the tangible expression of their confidence in the product.
Martin Cohen

 

[Mustafa Umut Sarac]

Wrong , Have you ever been used Leica binocular , Its small but more than 900 dollars , you can buy same from Nikon 70 dollars. If you visit a crowded museum or do birdwatching , you want the best. Rent a Leitz binocular and you will not believe your eyes , honestly talking , no anger or hostility involved.

 

[Mustafa Umut Sarac]

Georg , posted before me.

 

[Jeff Kubach]

I dont give a dime to canon , I used it in 25 years , in many times and was the worst lenses possible ,
and I read german photo technique magazine a test on nikon , leica high power lenses and leica was 50 years forward. Why , because their mathematics knowledge , creativity with Russians are unequalled.
Some use canon , drive toyota
some use kodak , drive gm
but i will always use agfa ,leica and drive mercedes.

So do you walk?

Jeff

 

[georg16nik]

Now, how about The World's Largest Telephoto Lens ?
Zeiss Apo Sonnar T 4/1700mm http://www.zeiss.de/C1256A770030BCE...B70FB269EE6ADF88C12571F40032D889?OpenDocument
http://leicarumors.com/2008/12/13/the-largest-telephoto-lens-in-the-world-is-not-a-leica.aspx/

 

[georg16nik]

I think the previous position is the LEICA APO-TELYT-R 1:5.6/1600mm.. 2,064,489 USD
http://leicarumors.com/2008/12/11/the-most-expensive-lens-in-the-world-its-a-leica-of-course.aspx/
Looks like it is an M6 in the front..

 

[Monito]

Now, how about The World's Largest Telephoto Lens ?
Zeiss Apo Sonnar T 4/1700mm http://www.zeiss.de/C1256A770030BCE...B70FB269EE6ADF88C12571F40032D889?OpenDocument
http://leicarumors.com/2008/12/13/the-largest-telephoto-lens-in-the-world-is-not-a-leica.aspx/

Largest? Not the Leica 1200mm, not the Zeiss 1700mm, but rather it is the Canon 5200mm:

http://www.petapixel.com/2010/01/06/ginormous-5200mm-canon-lens-on-ebay/

 

[georg16nik]

We are talking quality lenses here

 

[Monito]

We are talking quality lenses here

Yes.

There is also the Canon 2000mm lens.

 

[Mustafa Umut Sarac]

You cant race with Leica on quality , rent two cameras , shoot same scene with it and you will see the difference. Any serious scientist will tell you the reason.

 

[georg16nik]

Yes, the f/14 of the Canon is a "no go" against the Leica f/5.6 and Zeiss f/4.
Add to that Zeiss enormous experience in space optics..
Zeiss is participating in the Hubble's Successor - James Webb Space Telescope (JWST)
http://www.universetoday.com/11169/zeiss-optics-in-hubbles-successor/

 

[lxdude]

I thought this argument was over long ago.

Leitz and Minolta had enough respect for each other that they began collaborating on products in the early 70's. At the same time, Zeiss decided that a second-tier Japanese manufacturer, Yashica, was a worthy partner, and Contax cameras and lenses were the result. Both sides of each partnership benefited from the other's expertise.


German optics are highly respected for their quality, and not just Leitz and Zeiss. Japanese optics have a very high reputation, and not just Canon and Nikon.

 

[georg16nik]

lxdude, the high reputation of the japanese companies can be discussed in a separate thread in much greater detail.
We are talking about Leitz and Zeiss as is the title of the thread, those companies were the major players in the development of compact film cameras and they are still participating in it to this day, while most japanese stepped onto their knowledge and experience back in the days, made some products - obviously popular in US, UK, Canada and thats it.. So What?
Today, almost all of those japanese companies (exclude Cosina etc) are not in the film cameras business.

 

[Xmas]

We are talking about Leitz and Zeiss as is the title of the thread, those companies were the major players in the development of compact film cameras and they are still participating in it to this day, while most japanese stepped onto their knowledge and experience back in the days, made some products - obviously popular in US, UK, Canada and thats it.. So What?
Today, almost all of those japanese companies (exclude Cosina etc) are not in the film cameras business.

Hi
I thought:-
Leica only make limited numbers of M7 and MP almost all their production is M9 and M9-P bodies
Zeiss get Cosina to make the ZM body and the higher volume ZM lenses, I dont think Cosina are makng ZM or Bessa bodies in high volume.
Almost no one is buying film bodies any more, so volume producers cannot consider making them. Ignoring Nikon's sentemental reproduction of the S3 and SP.
Cosina can make small batches, as can Leica...

If we ignore lomo no one is making film cameras in volume any more?

Perhaps you come from a different planet?

Noel

 

[georg16nik]

Perhaps, You work for Leitz in order to know the amount/kind of Leicas being made?
btw: the russians still make Zenit and Horizont http://www.zenit-foto.ru/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=25&Itemid=33&lang=ru
Fed exited film cameras to do this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kIvVHHmkZwo&feature=sub

 

[lxdude]

lxdude, the high reputation of the japanese companies can be discussed in a separate thread in much greater detail.
We are talking about Leitz and Zeiss as is the title of the thread, those companies were the major players in the development of compact film cameras and they are still participating in it to this day, while most japanese stepped onto their knowledge and experience back in the days, made some products - obviously popular in US, UK, Canada and thats it.. So What?
Today, almost all of those japanese companies (exclude Cosina etc) are not in the film cameras business.

It's not like I suddenly diverted the thread onto the reputation of Japanese companies. I know what the title is.
I was responding to the chauvinistic bashing of the quality of Japanese companies' optical products. But that's not why I commented.
I commented because the ongoing statements had lowered the thread to the immature, silly level of the Canon vs. Nikon fanboy arguments so prevalent around the net.

 

[georg16nik]

lxdude, ...in 2011 most of us are snobs, chauvinist.. or we wouldn't be at APUG and shooting film, etc, etc..
Usually, when it comes down to Zeiss and Leica.. "You 'get it' or you don't.." as Roger Hicks used to say while still participating here at apug.org
Its especially true about Leica.., Why? - Because it's a bit like religion. If you have to ask, you won't understand!
Some folks here, continuously don't 'get it' when the talk is about Zeiss and Leica and introduce "the theme" about japanese stuff, over and over..

 

[Monito]

Some folks here, continuously don't 'get it' when the talk is about Zeiss and Leica and introduce "the theme" about japanese stuff, over and over..

You have only yourself to blame. The thread that spawned this thread was about a lens for a Japanese camera, a Canon. People got talking about Leitz lenses and then you made some unsound claims about the Japanese.

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

 

[georg16nik]

You have only yourself to blame. The thread that spawned this thread was about a lens for a Japanese camera, a Canon. People got talking about Leitz lenses and then you made some unsound claims about the Japanese.

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

You mean the post about the 3d qualities of a lens (Jupiter 3) that is Zeiss derivative?
Jupiter 3 is an adapted version (M39/LTM) of pre-war Zeiss Sonnar for Contax.
Made by the russians for their early Zorki, Fed..

 

[Monito]

No, georg16nik, your post, specifically the part of your post that is quoted in the first post of this thread. Please read it. Because you made the inaccurate implication, this thread ended up being spun off.

The discussion at that point was about Leitz. You dragged into it the "Japanese stuff" by claiming that they got German tools after the war because they were on the "winning" side. (They did not and they were not.) You specifically mention Nikon and Canon and now you have the effrontery to complain about people who "introduce the theme about Japanese stuff".

lxdude, ...in 2011 most of us are snobs, chauvinist.. or we wouldn't be at APUG and shooting film, etc, etc..

To the extent that there is snobbery and chauvinism on APUG, it is not helpful, nor is it helpful to the cause of film. Many people here, probably a majority of the readers and infrequent posters, are here to learn and because they enjoy both analogue and digital photography. Brand chauvinism, ethnic chauvinism, regional chauvinism, and film chauvinism just get in the way. They certainly don't help APUG.