Yet another post about the Zone System

[Sirius Glass]

Given that photography is based on base 2, wouldn't in retrospect been better if Ansel Adams has made his Zone Systems in Octal or Hexadecimal rather than Uni-decimal [0 to 10 is eleven levels]?

 

[cliveh]

Given that photography is based on base 2, wouldn't in retrospect been better if Ansel Adams has made his Zone Systems in Octal or Hexadecimal rather than Uni-decimal [0 to 10 is eleven levels]?

What on earth are you talking about?

 

[Christopher Walrath]

Layman's terms would be appreciated and stuff.

 

[Bill Burk]

I agree it is fun to wonder what the world of photography would have been like if Ansel Adams had chosen a different number of Zones.

It should have been 7 Zones because that's closer to Normal. Those are the useful Zones.

There is also some confusion whether a true traditional Zone System should count 10 Zones (0-IX) or 11 Zones (0-X).

 

[Sirius Glass]

The Zone System is from 0 to 10. That is eleven levels, hence Uni-decimal system [base 11]. Photography is based on base 2, shutter speed and apertures are half or double. An even power of 2 is 8 [23 = 8] called Octal or 16 [24= 16] called Hexadecimal.

Ansel Adams should have used an Octal or Hexadecimal rather than Uni-decimal.

 

[gone]

Unless you shoot sheet film, AND meter and develop/print by the zone system, AND use graded papers (ergo the start at grade 2).....it don't much matter.

I'm pretty sure St Adams only got 10 zones by under/over exposing the film, and by under/over developing the negs.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Since paper at best is seven levels, the Octal system would have been better.

 

[eddie]

Unless you shoot sheet film, AND meter and develop/print by the zone system, AND use graded papers (ergo the start at grade 2).....it don't much matter.

I don't know why you said this. The Zone System is compatible with VC papers. In fact, the use of VC papers can add a bit of nuance when desired.

 

[Bill Burk]

Sirius Glass,

Careful not to confuse Print Zones with Subject Zones.

Grade 2 Paper can fit all 11 Zones from Zone 0 to Zone X if you develop N-2

Actually your play on number bases is worth exploring.

I would be happier if the example I gave could be more clearly communicated and verified.

Maybe it's N-3?

But you know, to carry forward a suggested change in number base... The underlying base in photography is Logarithmic, and we have two convenient choices: Square root of 2 intervals (0.15) and Cube root of 2 intervals (0.10).

 

[Sirius Glass]

Sirius Glass,

Careful not to confuse Print Zones with Subject Zones.

Grade 2 Paper can fit all 11 Zones from Zone 0 to Zone X if you develop N-2

Actually your play on number bases is worth exploring.

A numerical base system for black & white film.
A numerical base system for black & white print paper.
A numerical base system for color negative film.
A numerical base system for color print paper.
A numerical base system for color slide film.

While the word "print" may be considered redundant, it is included for clarity.

 

[Bill Burk]

Good idea Sirius, We need one for each!

 

[benjiboy]

I've often wondered what chairs would look like Steve if our knees were hinged the opposite way, forward not back

 

[snapguy]

if

If pigs had wings, would they fly? It's nice to know I guess that some of us are smarter than everybody else. Too bad Mr. Adams didn't shoot more photos in Kansas. Corn fields are real interesting.

 

[Stephen Benskin]

A numerical base system for black & white film.
A numerical base system for black & white print paper.
A numerical base system for color negative film.
A numerical base system for color print paper.
A numerical base system for color slide film.

While the word "print" may be considered redundant, it is included for clarity.

I personally like base 10 logs.

 

[Sirius Glass]

I've often wondered what chairs would look like Steve if our knees were hinged the opposite way, forward not back

Then we could sit in our laps.

 

[MattKing]

I'm just glad Ansel Adams wasn't a member of Spinal Tap.:munch:

 

[tkamiya]

With advent of computers, we see Hex as more less a normal number system but when Adams developed zone system, did it even exist in most people's vocabulary? (or did it even exist??)

Does anyone use Octals anymore? I recall using them on DEC PDP11/34 but that was long time ago....

 

[Alan Klein]

Octal would be good for 8 fingered people.

 

[Sirius Glass]

With advent of computers, we see Hex as more less a normal number system but when Adams developed zone system, did it even exist in most people's vocabulary? (or did it even exist??)

Does anyone use Octals anymore? I recall using them on DEC PDP11/34 but that was long time ago....

IBM 7094, a pre-IBM 360 main frame.

A bytes is eight bits. What is half a byte called?

 

[tkamiya]

Nibble....

I always thought one above byte should have been a "mega-byte" or "chomp", not "word"...

Does anyone use Octals TODAY for ANYTHING?

 

[Sirius Glass]

Nibble....

I always thought one above byte should have been a "mega-byte" or "chomp", not "word"...

Does anyone use Octals TODAY for ANYTHING?

Octogenarians?

 

[NedL]

With advent of computers, we see Hex as more less a normal number system but when Adams developed zone system, did it even exist in most people's vocabulary? (or did it even exist??)

Does anyone use Octals anymore? I recall using them on DEC PDP11/34 but that was long time ago....

More recently than a PDP11 administering solaris, but it's been some years since I typed in configuration settings in octal!

 

[Truzi]

I'm just glad Ansel Adams wasn't a member of Spinal Tap.:munch:

LOL

 

[tkamiya]

I don't recall using Octals in Solaris either... maybe some obscure config parameters somewhere??

 

[swchris]

I don't recall using Octals in Solaris either... maybe some obscure config parameters somewhere??

Parameter to "chmod" command...