Yellow filter, or polarizer to darken skies

[gone]

I was doing the final testing to decide which portrait lens works best (it's a real toss up between my FD 135 2.5 and the FL 135 3.5, so I'll keep 'em both) when I noticed something. First, using a yellow filter on portraits really changes the look, and not always for the better, depending on the skin color of your sitter. Second, when shooting foliage, you not only get a different look with or without a filter, you also get a strange lack of detail.

The shot below was first taken w/ no filter on the FD lens. The second pic shows it w/ a yellow filter. The values haven't been properly adjusted to appear equal, but you do see less detail in the leaves for sure w/ the yellow filter. I took this same shot w/ the FL lens w/ a yellow filter and it looked exactly the same, so it's the filter and not my FD lens. Film was Arista EDU Ultra 100 in Mic-X.

I do like the yellow filter for darkening skies though. Will a polarizer work just as well for this? The last time I used a polarizer I got uneven effects in the sky.

 

[bernard_L]

"you do see less detail" Actually loss of contrast. If not an artefact of conversion to numerical (only you can tell) it might be diffuse flare. Did you check your yellow filter for haze, scratches, and the like?
For scenes with foliage and blue sky, you might try yellow-green filter: darkens sky (moderately) and raises foliage values.

 

[Xmas]

The yellow and pola filters produce rather different effects.

e.g.

- the yellow will improve IQ in all but a few lenses, i.e. cept for Apo lenses, you need a solid tripod to see this, or real good technique, I'd not see this.
- the pola will leave the colours 'intact', apart from the sky increase in blue saturation, (note this is a subjection appreciation, some people will describe it different) it will also alter reflections water & glass. with a SLR this should be visible. The yellow will alter colours...
- the pola may upset your TTL meter good (if is is not a more expensive circular for some TTL cameras, RTM!).

With a wide and a pola you will get variation (in saturation, see note above again) across the picture, but ok with tele or normal normally!

I pack three yellows faint to deep, and a pola, YMMV, i.e. space in gbag etc. It is very rare I bother with to carry green, orange, or red.

 

[AgX]

I do like the yellow filter for darkening skies though. Will a polarizer work just as well for this? The last time I used a polarizer I got uneven effects in the sky.

The polarisation of blue-skylight is uneven, thus will be the effect of filtration by polarizer.

 

[M Carter]

Some people claim a polarizer can subtly rob skin of its luminosity; they're usually avoided in film/video work for people shots for that reason.

Not sure if that's the case with B&W, or how strong this effect really is (when you think about skin, a lot of what makes it pretty is its translucency and depth, so makes sense a pol could jack with rendering that).

Like all things in this biz, test test test - only way to find out what works with your style and technique.

BTW, I go through a couple circular polas a year, and I've been very happy with the Marumi brand. New kids on the block, Google for reviews and tests - pretty impressive and very well priced.

 

[johara]

As other noted, keep in mind that you can generally choose any two of: wide angle lens, use of polarizer, sky major part of the picture. Otherwise you may
be disappointed by a very unnatural looking sky. This is because blue sky is most polarized +/-90 degrees away from the sun, and hardly at all
at 0 and 180 degrees. The effect is readily visible if you just look through the filter.

A polarizer will kill cloud reflections in water, whereas e.g. a 23A light red filter will emphasize the contrast in them, as well
as in the sky... if you want that effect.

This isn't to say that a polarizer can't be exactly what you need in a given situation. It just depends.

 

[480sparky]

A polarizer can produce some very undesirable results, especially when used on ultra-wide lenses.

SOOC without a polarizer:

Same scene, with a polarizer:

 

[pentaxuser]

Looks like lack of contrast to me as well rather than lack of detail. If the filter is a high quality one without blemishes then I have never seen any suggestion in any books on filters that a yellow filter will reduce detail.

pentaxuser

 

[Dan Daniel]

A filter may not reduce detail but it could change color renderings and that could reduce contrast. Filters aren't comb filters- they can have an effect outside of their specific color. And something like a plant isn't a just 'green.' It is a variety of color shades, including yellow very often.

So maybe there is something going here with the spectral response of the film, the filter's spectrum, and the plant to cause it to reduce contrast between the various shades of green in the leaves, leading to a perception of less detail.

Try a darker yellow filter, orange, red. Green is often recommended for skin. I've had a lot of luck using a Yellow-Green on the street.

 

[DREW WILEY]

Just get a set of filters like yellow, orange, red, green perhaps, and play with them to see what you like. Remember to apply the correct filter factor to each respective exposure.

 

[AgX]

A filter factor for colour filters only applies if one wants a grey object keeping its luminance. Otherwise it depends on the desired effect

 

[cliveh]

I was doing the final testing to decide which portrait lens works best (it's a real toss up between my FD 135 2.5 and the FL 135 3.5, so I'll keep 'em both) when I noticed something. First, using a yellow filter on portraits really changes the look, and not always for the better, depending on the skin color of your sitter. Second, when shooting foliage, you not only get a different look with or without a filter, you also get a strange lack of detail.

The shot below was first taken w/ no filter on the FD lens. The second pic shows it w/ a yellow filter. The values haven't been properly adjusted to appear equal, but you do see less detail in the leaves for sure w/ the yellow filter. I took this same shot w/ the FL lens w/ a yellow filter and it looked exactly the same, so it's the filter and not my FD lens. Film was Arista EDU Ultra 100 in Mic-X.

I do like the yellow filter for darkening skies though. Will a polarizer work just as well for this? The last time I used a polarizer I got uneven effects in the sky.

View attachment 104943

View attachment 104944

From the examples in your OP, I take it you are working in black & white and for these images, a green filter may have been more effective. As for darkening skies a yellow, red or polariser will all do the trick depending on the type of result you want.

 

[gone]

"The polarisation of blue-skylight is uneven, thus will be the effect of filtration by polarizer".

And after looking at the examples posted by 480sparky all I can say is, amen to that! Wow, that looks bad. No wonder I seldom used a polarizer. I'll stick to my yellow and red filters, and make a few more tests to see how the leaves change w/ them on the lens. I know that in general I do like foliage w/ red filters, and I'll just take the filters off for the portraits. Thanks.

 

[Sirius Glass]

The polarizer's results depend on the Sun angle. This is way very wide angle lenses can produce unwanted effects.

 

[Old-N-Feeble]

The second image looks underexposed to me, which would result in the much lowered contrast already been mentioned.

 

[darinwc]

It may also be an issue due to a change in exposure. If the yellow filter caused the meter to incorrectly expose the scene, it can result in a loss of contrast and a lack of apparent detail.

Examining the negatives may help determine the issue.

Are the examples you posted from scanned negatives or prints?

 

[Rick A]

You may want to read this, and then choose a filter for a specific situation.

http://www.crime-scene-investigator.net/filters1.html

 

[Russ - SVP]

Using a polarizer on anything wider than 28mm's will cause uneven color in your skies, which surprisingly, doesn't bother me.

24mm lens and polarizer. No post processing.

Orange filter and polarizer. 35mm Delta 100 film. No post processing.

Orange filter. Ilford XP-2, 20-40mm glass. No post processing.

Orange filter on Neopan 400CN film. No post processing.

Deep yellow #15 filter. Neopan 400CN film.

Deep yellow #15 filter, Neopan 400CN film.

Orange filter, XP-2 film.

Orange filter, Ilford XP-2 film.

I shoot quite a bit of B/W film, and I usually use a deep yellow #15 filter. It's much better than the standard #8 yellow filter, and not nearly as heavy handed as a red. There's not a huge difference between the deep yellow and the orange. I find that if gives me very pleasing skies, and I don't lose too much detail in the shadows. On my New Mexico trip, I carried one body with XP-2 film, a Tamron SP 20-40 lens with an orange filter permanently attached. The resulting images came out very nice.