WTH is going on? Cost increases in used MF gear??

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John Galt

John Galt

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Where are you looking? Prices are dropping on Ebay. This time of the year it's a buyers market.

I am looking mainly at KEH. One year warranty with 14 day no question return policy. I purchased a Hasselblad 250mm T* lens and a 500CM body last year in EX+ condition. . neither of them appeared to be used at all. Been very happy with KEH.

I have had several bad experiences with fleabay
 

Sirius Glass

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Nice Hasselblad stuff is been getting harder to find at a bargain. We enjoyed a decade of pros just dumping mf stuff. Now it seems that young folks are fascinated with film. Also it's getting used up and broken down. 10 to 12 years back I bought a mint 501c 80 and 150, 2 backs wlf and 45 degree prism for 1100 bucks. There are still deals out there just takes a while to find them.

PS Puffins are bad luck, they despise Swedish cameras :blink:

Maybe it is because the market for good clean used Hasselblads is a "sellers" market, no longer a "buyers market".I noticed this starting two years ago. One of the results of a return of film. As a Hasselblad owner nearing the end of the line, I hope it continues.........Regards!

I think it's a simple case of supply and demand economics. The supply of classic film cameras is declining every day. They're no longer being made (with tiny exceptions, of course) and people like me that have more film cameras than I can reasonably shoot aren't selling them. Demand, on the other hand, seems to be steady or on the uptick.

I'm glad I bought when I bought and I'm keeping it.Maybe one day ,I can afford a Hasselblad digital back.

All of the above plus you got a real bargain before. Keep looking and buy the model you really want.
 

Ian Grant

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Too late -that's already happened too... 4x5 cameras that were $300 a couple years ago are now selling for $800.

Sort of, I agree but it's not uniform. In general LF prices have probably risen much faster than MF, which is itself faster than 35mm.

There are cheap LF cameras around, I've just had to restored a supposedly nice Crown Graphic for someone, it had the rare optional Graflex back, totally useless it's wider than an International back, can't take Graflok roll film backs etc. It was in quite poor condition the seller had deliberately switched the back, a Graflex spring or Graflok back needs an extra screw and the hole was there on the body with a split because he'd missed it when removing toe original back :D

I've been planning to replace my Wista 45DX which has been my main camera for 30+ years, but has had a lot of wear and tear, and in the past 2 years prices have doubled or more, Chinese equivalents have rocketed up in price as well.

There's a definite rise in MF cameras but it's more Brand and Model dependant. I bought a really nice Rolleiflex Automat MXV with Opton Tessar 2 or 3 years ago for £70 (just under 490) it's used but most likely been serviced, but the value of my mint Rolleiflex E2 f3.5 Xenotar took a big tumble 15 years ago as did my M3 Leice when Digital became almost the norm. But demand and almost no new film cameras means values bounced back and have risen higher.

We can still get bargains . . . . . well I do :D

Ian
 
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I see complete RB67's for less than $400 shipped. Lens and all. Those lenses are really nice. I'm looking at adding another RB67 body for 70mm only and so far those bodies are affordable, to me anyway.

I love Mamiya RB/RZ cameras. I have been using them for a while and got a used Hassy a few years back. Though both are MF cameras, the Hasselblad is a camera made for travel. I tried traveling with an RZ, it's tough. Especially when I'm well into middle age. :wink:
 

TheFlyingCamera

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Sort of, I agree but it's not uniform. In general LF prices have probably risen much faster than MF, which is itself faster than 35mm.

There are cheap LF cameras around, I've just had to restored a supposedly nice Crown Graphic for someone, it had the rare optional Graflex back, totally useless it's wider than an International back, can't take Graflok roll film backs etc. It was in quite poor condition the seller had deliberately switched the back, a Graflex spring or Graflok back needs an extra screw and the hole was there on the body with a split because he'd missed it when removing toe original back :D

I've been planning to replace my Wista 45DX which has been my main camera for 30+ years, but has had a lot of wear and tear, and in the past 2 years prices have doubled or more, Chinese equivalents have rocketed up in price as well.

There's a definite rise in MF cameras but it's more Brand and Model dependant. I bought a really nice Rolleiflex Automat MXV with Opton Tessar 2 or 3 years ago for £70 (just under 490) it's used but most likely been serviced, but the value of my mint Rolleiflex E2 f3.5 Xenotar took a big tumble 15 years ago as did my M3 Leice when Digital became almost the norm. But demand and almost no new film cameras means values bounced back and have risen higher.

We can still get bargains . . . . . well I do :D

Ian
Of course bargains are possible if you're A: patient, B: know more about what you're looking at than the seller of the gear in question, and C: you're convincing in your arguments about the value of the camera. But none of those are a given.
 

jim10219

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Of course bargains are possible if you're A: patient, B: know more about what you're looking at than the seller of the gear in question, and C: you're convincing in your arguments about the value of the camera. But none of those are a given.
That may be what's skewed my idea of large format being cheaper. Come to think of it, I will often stumble across LF cameras in terrible condition, priced like a Monet painting, and just think to myself that the seller has no idea what they have, but thinks it has to be worth a fortune because it's old and they've never seen one before. And I'm always on the lookout for LF bargains and know enough about them to stumble across several great buys every year. So perhaps I'm just basing my judgement on what I've personally purchased in the last few years, and not everything that I've seen.
 
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You should price the nearly unfixable 200/2000 series Blads... Then there is the Contax 645...

Back in the mid 2000s a Japanese friend of mine was going back to Japan for a bit and asked me if I wanted a new Mamiya 7II with an 80. He was picking one up for himself for $1200. I passed......

I think there is also the factor that few "auctions" exist on ebay any more and that is what people generally use to determine value. Lots of buy it nows and such which are way over valued, but if someone is looking for a camera and all they see are big price tags, they assume that is what they have to pay and they pay it.
 

TheFlyingCamera

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That may be what's skewed my idea of large format being cheaper. Come to think of it, I will often stumble across LF cameras in terrible condition, priced like a Monet painting, and just think to myself that the seller has no idea what they have, but thinks it has to be worth a fortune because it's old and they've never seen one before. And I'm always on the lookout for LF bargains and know enough about them to stumble across several great buys every year. So perhaps I'm just basing my judgement on what I've personally purchased in the last few years, and not everything that I've seen.
It's real easy to forget those horrendous junkers that are grossly overpriced, because they offend the sensibilities!
 

Arthurwg

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I had an unfortunate accident in Newfoundland this Sept. I was photographing Puffins on an island off the coast when the wind blew my tripod mounted Hasselblad 500C over onto the rocks. It landed on the winding lever and tweaked the body so bad that it is basically junk. /QUOTE]

This is why I bought a NOS 501CM as back-up a few years ago.
 

faberryman

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Prices for Hasselblad stuff are all over the board. I don't recall ever seeing a 500C, 2 A12s, an 80 and 150 for the $500 you paid in 2016. Deal of the century.
 
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John Galt

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Prices for Hasselblad stuff are all over the board. I don't recall ever seeing a 500C, 2 A12s, an 80 and 150 for the $500 you paid in 2016. Deal of the century.
faberryman, I had to have the chrome 80mm CLA'd as it had a sticky shutter. And I replaced the light seals in one of the magazines. It was the deal of the century for sure and I drove 6 1/2 hours one way from Central NY to Camden Maine the next day to grab the kit before she changed her mind. A few months before that she wanted $1200. She must have had a boat payment coming due or something.
 
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abruzzi

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I think there is also the factor that few "auctions" exist on ebay any more and that is what people generally use to determine value. Lots of buy it nows and such which are way over valued, but if someone is looking for a camera and all they see are big price tags, they assume that is what they have to pay and they pay it.

While this doesn't account for KEH prices, this is a good point. Many of the overpriced buy-it-now sales renew forever and rarely actually sell. The seller is hoping for that lucky sale to someone that doesn't have time to wait for an auction or price shop. A month or so ago I bought a Bronica 100-220 lens from KEH for about $220. I was happy and didn't mind the price. Then a few weeks later a USA seller on eBay listed both a 100-220 and a 45-90. I followed both but only bid on the 45-90. The 100-220 went for $100. I won the 45-90 for around $150 which was still less than half of what most of the buy-it-nows were asking.
 

Kodachromeguy

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I agree with comments above that prices can be all over the place, but are generally trending up. A year ago, I bought a gorgeous chrome Zeiss 250 f/5.6 for my Hasselblad. It was $87 (USA ePrey purchase). Astonishing for that magnificent West German craftsmanship. The cheezy mass-produced plastic kit lenses that the digital users buy cost more than that.
Here is my lens: https://worldofdecay.blogspot.com/2018/03/the-long-view-and-some-gas-250mm-sonnar.html

Two years ago, I bought a Rolleiflex 3.5E Xenotar for only about $200 because a previous buyer had returned it with a complaint that something was wrong. The lenses were absolutely perfect. Of course, a complete cleaning and new brighter screen added $500 to the purchase. But now, clean Rolleiflexes seem to be selling for $1000 (and you can be sure that most of them still need the cleaning and checkup).
My Rolleiflex: https://worldofdecay.blogspot.com/2016/05/a-short-tour-of-vicksburg-with.html

As Ian above pointed out, most of these film cameras tumbled in price about 15 years ago, when digital conquered the world. But, the mechanical cameras are not being made, and slowly there is attrition, so supply and demand sets the prices. There may be on exception: Leicas were often bought by collectors and stored in homes or safe deposit boxes. After the old gent dies, the widows sell the Leicas and all the nice stuff the gent collected. I sometimes see amazing and almost-unused bodies and lenses show up for sale, M4s in a time warp from the 1960s.
 

mshchem

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While this doesn't account for KEH prices, this is a good point. Many of the overpriced buy-it-now sales renew forever and rarely actually sell. The seller is hoping for that lucky sale to someone that doesn't have time to wait for an auction or price shop. A month or so ago I bought a Bronica 100-220 lens from KEH for about $220. I was happy and didn't mind the price. Then a few weeks later a USA seller on eBay listed both a 100-220 and a 45-90. I followed both but only bid on the 45-90. The 100-220 went for $100. I won the 45-90 for around $150 which was still less than half of what most of the buy-it-nows were asking.
I had both those lenses at one time. Fortunately I got out of them before the collapse. Of course I used the money to buy a brand new RZ67 II kit for 3 grand. I've had so much fun with medium format over the years. Money well spent.
IMHO the Bronica zooms are great lenses. I had the 50-100 SQ-AI version for a time. I bought that on Ebay for 300 bucks.
 

Dan Daniel

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When you do a search on Ebay, select the 'advanced' option next to the 'SEARCH' button. Then select under 'Search Including' the 'Sold listings' option. These are the actual sales, the real numbers of what things are going for, not the Buy It Now dreams and scams.
 

Ian Grant

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Of course bargains are possible if you're A: patient, B: know more about what you're looking at than the seller of the gear in question, and C: you're convincing in your arguments about the value of the camera. But none of those are a given.

I'd add another - D: you are able to fix/sort out any issues & source parts, and your "A: patient" comment can stretch over a period of time if you're after parts. This is really only relevant when it comes to Large Format cameras.

With that in mind I've rebuilt and restored quite a number of LF cameras from 9x12cm & 5x4 up to 12"x10" (my largest so far) and all bought at very reasonable prices. £30 (less than $40) for a Gandolfi Half Plate camera with a tripod, £50 (about $65) for the 12"x10" camera.

Ian
 

TonyB65

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As someone has previously mentioned, even cheaper 35mm cameras are rising in price. The 90's era plastic fantastic's are even creeping up in price. About 18 months ago I was given a mint Canon EOS 50E for nothing, once I realised how good they are I bought another mint one off ebay for £15, now they go for £40 and often quite a bit more. Large format 4x5 cameras aren't a problem as several companies are making them new, it's the lenses that are harder to get. Some medium format cameras are also definitely going up, Pentax 67's are rising in price now. With ebay, the time of year is always key, the next month or so is a buyers market, but come February that'll change again. I have quite a stash of cameras now, enough to see me out no problem. I've even identified one old classic SLR in several variants which has a very common problem and is very easy to repair, requiring no extra parts, so I keep an eye out for those being sold as faulty, which is not uncommon. The real trick is to study the market and understand the right price and time to buy.
This situation is only going to get worse, it's just supply and demand, virtually no-one is making most of this gear now, so grab it while you can, and look after it.
 

Sirius Glass

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I agree with comments above that prices can be all over the place, but are generally trending up. A year ago, I bought a gorgeous chrome Zeiss 250 f/5.6 for my Hasselblad. It was $87 (USA ePrey purchase). Astonishing for that magnificent West German craftsmanship. The cheezy mass-produced plastic kit lenses that the digital users buy cost more than that.
Here is my lens: https://worldofdecay.blogspot.com/2018/03/the-long-view-and-some-gas-250mm-sonnar.html

Two years ago, I bought a Rolleiflex 3.5E Xenotar for only about $200 because a previous buyer had returned it with a complaint that something was wrong. The lenses were absolutely perfect. Of course, a complete cleaning and new brighter screen added $500 to the purchase. But now, clean Rolleiflexes seem to be selling for $1000 (and you can be sure that most of them still need the cleaning and checkup).
My Rolleiflex: https://worldofdecay.blogspot.com/2016/05/a-short-tour-of-vicksburg-with.html

As Ian above pointed out, most of these film cameras tumbled in price about 15 years ago, when digital conquered the world. But, the mechanical cameras are not being made, and slowly there is attrition, so supply and demand sets the prices. There may be on exception: Leicas were often bought by collectors and stored in homes or safe deposit boxes. After the old gent dies, the widows sell the Leicas and all the nice stuff the gent collected. I sometimes see amazing and almost-unused bodies and lenses show up for sale, M4s in a time warp from the 1960s.

PLUS Still for the price of the top of the line Nikon or Canon digital camera and lens, one can buy a Hasselblad body, several lenses and a bunch of rolls of film.
 

Saganich

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k.hendrik

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About what we're complaining ?
I found a price list in Dutch guilders from Mamiya RZ67 Pro II and others, in 1993/4.
RZ67 Body 3935,00, 120 cassette 1170,00, Lenses 65mm 3750,00, 75mm 3725,00, 140mm 3750,00, AE prism 2445,00.
Mamiya C330 pro S, with prism and 80mm 2344,13
Rolleiflex 2.8 GX, 6809,13. Prism 2382,90.
Rolleiflex 6008 SRC1000 with prism and 80mm 10.962,75.
And last but not least my little baby;
Rolleiflex SL66SE & prism & 80mm 17.431,13.

GAS my dear friends !
 
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Kodachromeguy

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Sirius brings up a good point. Even though film cameras seem expensive, they are cheap compared to digital cameras. They are also "cool" in a way digital just isn't. On top of that, they hold their value.
Wait, I am cool again? Really? According to the "experts" and "photographers" on the big photo review site, they are the most sophisticated and trendy things on earth because they disposed of their film equipment and use the latest and baddest DSLR mega-computer-cameras with those monstrous penile zoom kit lenses and can take 10^4 pictures on a weekend and can process their files with their "workflow."
 

Sirius Glass

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Wait, I am cool again? Really? According to the "experts" and "photographers" on the big photo review site, they are the most sophisticated and trendy things on earth because they disposed of their film equipment and use the latest and baddest DSLR mega-computer-cameras with those monstrous penile zoom kit lenses and can take 10^4 pictures on a weekend and can process their files with their "workflow."


What those "experts" and "photographers" do not know would fill a library. They write fluff for a paycheck, that does not make them knowledgeable.
 
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