Would you take advantage of an uninformed seller?

BrianShaw · May 4, 2015

Michael R 1974 said:
People are posting too fast for me and I not so good understanding. But if the seller is old or young I'm told you should really pay a little more than it is worth. You can only offer less if the seller is in a certain age bracket. In addition, you should also first find out about the seller's financial position and medical history, because really, those are also supposed to impact the transaction price. The buyer's financial position and medical history also factor in though. There are formulas for these things. In the end, what's imortant is how many enlargers you have.

That is predominantly in the Northern Hemisphere, I believe. I understand that things go the other way around in the Southern Hemisphere.... but I only visited there once and was so confused because I was standing on my head while everyone else was standing on their feet. Maybe its the same, and maybe not. Things looked very topsy-turvy from my perspective.

BrianShaw · May 4, 2015

RobC said:
Now it's an old widow. You're making it up just like I did. You have no idea what the facts are. How do you know if Exa doesn't give a shit what she gets for camera and everything else. She might just want to be rid of his toys and other items. So you are making a lot of assumptions based on your own prejudices.

The lady who lives next door to me was a widow at 40. I consider that young, maybe even very young. Her husband had a garage full of expensive machinist tools that Goodwill or Salvation Army hauled away. She felt good about how she decided to dispose of them. She made that decision after several of her husbands "friends' decided to give her some "good advise" on what they are worth and how she should sell them. And she loved her husband very much; he did not die like Mr Fotoman... being told that she wanted to divorce him or anyting like that.

Ken Nadvornick · May 4, 2015

BrianShaw said:
Then please answer the question that Ken has not yet answered...

Ken's not answering because he does not wish to further enable the painful pretzel-twisting of justifications. He's not going to allow himself to be carried down that self-serving black hole. Twist and shout all you like, but the original question was simple and crystal clear.

In the given described situation, would you cheat an old lady, or not?

To their credit, about two-thirds said no. Also to their credit, whether they like it or not, about one-third said yes. The general take-away is that in any transaction, business or otherwise, the two-thirds must always work diligently to identify the one-third, if they can. And because they are not savages, help to look out for the weaker who for whatever reasons cannot.

But the two-thirds already know this truth. It's one reason that, even though comfortably in the poll majority, they are so quiet in this thread. They don't need to justify not cheating old ladies.

It just is what it is...

Ken

Vaughn · May 4, 2015

BrianShaw said:
On behalf of Vaughn I propose the following change of his thought:

FROM: I think it is telling that the moralists here assume that because Exa is a woman. that she is an idiot and does not know what she is doing

TO: I think it is telling that the moralists here assume that she is an idiot and does not know what she is doing

Either way! I am presently dating a widow -- when her husband died 5 years ago she sold off a lot of stuff that she now regrets getting rid of. But at the time, if you told her that she probably should not sell the truck, etc, etc, she would have told you to STFU...and to mind your own business.

Actually, as a measure of morality, this particular exercise does not contain enough information to make a clean decision. Certainly not enough to get one's knickers in a knot about the results of the poll. The answers to the poll are absolutely worthless is determining the morality of APUG respondents. In addition, this poll seems to depend on dishonest or morally corrupt people to give honest answers to the poll.

But to all those who take this poll seriously and question the morality of people based on the answers of the poll: I am sorry, but I can not take your answers too seriously because the poll is faulty.

And I would not buy a 35mm camera anyway, unless to give to someone who needed one.

BrianShaw · May 4, 2015

Ken Nadvornick said:
Ken's not answering because he does not wish to further enable the painful pretzel-twisting of justifications. He's not going to allow himself to be carried down that self-serving black hole. Twist and shout all you like, but the original question was simple and crystal clear.

In the given described situation, would you cheat an old lady, or not?

...

I figured that Ken. I wasn't calling you out, really.

In the given situation only someone that offered her $19 would really be cheating her. She wanted $20. Even I would stare down someone who did that... and I'm a big believer in live and let live (and if judging someone, judge in the silence of my own heart).

moose10101 · May 4, 2015

Old-N-Feeble said:
No one... because the old widow was uninformed. I'm sure as soon as she discovers her mistake, and how the buyer took advantage of her, she'll definitely feel "stupid" and "used" and would likely experience "remorse" and "guilt" regarding having her husband's belongings cheated from her. That's not a nice feeling. Of course, some people don't care about such things because they have no conscience.

You're "sure"? No, you're "assuming", based on how you see the situation. You don't know why she set the price at $20, you don't know how she'll feel knowing that her husband's gear will be used instead of thrown away, and you sure as hell don't know if she'll feel "cheated".

Vaughn · May 4, 2015

moose10101 said:
You're "sure"? No, you're "assuming", based on how you see the situation. You don't know why she set the price at $20, you don't know how she'll feel knowing that her husband's gear will be used instead of thrown away, and you sure as hell don't know if she'll feel "cheated".

Exactly.

Hatchetman · May 4, 2015

moose10101 said:
You're "sure"? No, you're "assuming", based on how you see the situation. You don't know why she set the price at $20, you don't know how she'll feel knowing that her husband's gear will be used instead of thrown away, and you sure as hell don't know if she'll feel "cheated".

There's one way to find out if she's "sure."

Tell her the facts and see if she changes her mind.

BrianShaw · May 4, 2015

Hatchetman said:
There's one way to find out if she's "sure."

Tell her the facts and see if she changes her mind.

Even that isn't "for sure". Others have hypothesized that she may be so distraught that she may not be thinking right... and that could impact her ability to make a good judgment one way or the other.

BrianShaw · May 4, 2015

Oh, scratch that. I forgot; I voluntarily left the discussion. Sorry. Mea culpa.

Theo Sulphate · May 4, 2015

Michael R 1974 said:
The world can be viewed as a big zero-sum game ...

It can be viewed that way by some, but civilization is not a zero sum game. People don't have to take away from someone else in order to succeed.

Those who insist that it is zero sum are the ones who think "you have become rich only because I am poor" and "I am poor only because you are rich". They fail to see that people can improve their lives without hurting others.

blansky · May 4, 2015

BrianShaw said:
Oh, scratch that. I forgot; I voluntarily left the discussion. Sorry. Mea culpa.

You're allowed one right of return.

But if you storm out after that....sorry. You're done.

And a 'storm out" is anytime you end a post with an.....I'm done" or "to hell with you assholes" or "adios mother%4^546."

It's all there in Forum Rules# 204-B, subsection 88875R down near the bottom of the page.

Sorry I had to edit that, originally I quoted subsection 88874R which specifically pertains to "leaving in a huff" which is handled somewhat differently than a storm out.

Theo Sulphate · May 4, 2015

BrianShaw said:
Oh, scratch that. I forgot; I voluntarily left the discussion. Sorry. Mea culpa.

I suppose you're not interested, then, in learning Fred's death was ruled a homicide (poisoning) and Exa is in jail for suspicion of murder? Seems that he was having an affair with his younger assistant. As for that Leica, I'm afraid it's been admitted as evidence since there's still film in it that might reveal clues.

Old-N-Feeble · May 4, 2015

RobC said:
Now it's an old widow. You're making it up just like I did. You have no idea what the facts are. How do you know if Exa doesn't give a shit what she gets for camera and everything else. She might just want to be rid of his toys and other items. So you are making a lot of assumptions based on your own prejudices.

True... it was an assumption. Age has nothing to do with it nor does health or financial situation of the widow. Either we're honest or we're not.

Old-N-Feeble · May 4, 2015

Michael R 1974 said:
People are posting too fast for me and I not so good understanding. But if the seller is old or young I'm told you should really pay a little more than it is worth. You can only offer less if the seller is in a certain age bracket. In addition, you should also first find out about the seller's financial position and medical history, because really, those are also supposed to impact the transaction price. The buyer's financial position and medical history also factor in though. There are formulas for these things. In the end, what's imortant is how many enlargers you have.

None of that has anything to do with simple honesty. Take all of that out of the equation and the fact remains some of us will take advantage of someone without certain knowledge.

Old-N-Feeble · May 4, 2015

moose10101 said:
You're "sure"? No, you're "assuming", based on how you see the situation. You don't know why she set the price at $20, you don't know how she'll feel knowing that her husband's gear will be used instead of thrown away, and you sure as hell don't know if she'll feel "cheated".

The odds are very much in favor of my statement... IMO.

RobC · May 4, 2015

Old-N-Feeble said:
None of that has anything to do with simple honesty. Take all of that out of the equation and the fact remains some of us will take advantage of someone without certain knowledge.

So tell us, if you knew the yard sale was because her husband died and she was getting rid of his camera gear, would you go to it and why?

RobC · May 4, 2015

Seems to me that saying you are selling off your newly deceased spouses photo gear is a really good marketing ploy. Especially if you're doing it on APUG.

John Koehrer · May 4, 2015

We've had a person or two(?), three(?) mentioning glaring at the buyer for buying at the $20. Why not pipe up & tell the widow she's being taken advantage of?

MattKing · May 4, 2015

Theo Sulphate said:
I suppose you're not interested, then, in learning Fred's death was ruled a homicide (poisoning) and Exa is in jail for suspicion of murder? Seems that he was having an affair with his younger assistant. As for that Leica, I'm afraid it's been admitted as evidence since there's still film in it that might reveal clues.

If it was a Kodak Medalist, it might have even been the murder weapon.

By the way, I didn't respond to the poll - just the discussion.

Vaughn · May 4, 2015

I have sold camera equipment for a widow. Some folks here (and/or the LF forum) got to take advantage of the decent prices. I told her I would not get as good of a price compared to ebay, but I said the transactions would be smoother and in general the gear would be going to people would would use it. All but one transaction went well. I lost some money on the odd one, but ate the loss since I was being given a TLR system for my trouble. Sorry guys, but I sold the 4x5 gear to the university since I got a better price than I would have from you folks -- and my students got to use it, too.

moose10101 · May 4, 2015

Old-N-Feeble said:
The odds are very much in favor of my statement... IMO.

i.e. you're not sure, and your assumption is no more valid than the complete opposite.

BrianShaw · May 4, 2015

Because a sale is a transaction between a buyer and a seller, and anyone else is nothing more than a batman buttinsky. Interrupting a private conversation is nothing short of rude.

John Koehrer said:
We've had a person or two(?), three(?) mentioning glaring at the buyer for buying at the $20. Why not pipe up & tell the widow she's being taken advantage of?

removed account4 · May 4, 2015

blansky said:
Who gives homeless people money? How much. A dollar. A hundred dollars. Nothing, because then I'd just be an enabler.

i don't give $$ but food or gift cards to grocery stores / coffee shops.
when i was a grad student i used to make 3 lunches and give 2 of them away
when people asked me for $$. i figure they needed a meal more than they needed
to have another drink. once in a while they would ask me to sit on the ledge with them
under the overpas in puddle of pee and "share a smile" with them i declined.
once in a while when someone asked for change for a cup of coffee i would ask what kind of coffee
and buy them the largest one i could find ... their reply was usually " why are you giving me this, i don't drink coffee"

==

thanks for that pretzel logic reference
[video=youtube;v0f5nQO5Qbc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0f5nQO5Qbc[/video]
this thread gets funnier every page. i'm waiting for some sort of godwin event ..

Old-N-Feeble · May 4, 2015

I don't give cash to homeless either but if they're hungry I've bought them food.

Would you take advantage of an uninformed seller?

Fred A. Fotoman dies. His widow, Exa, is selling his Leica M3 at a yard sale for $20

Just take it, since no one is looking anyway.

Haggle the price down to $5, telling Exa it's an old film camera no one would use anymore.

Buy it for $20 and congratulate yourself on a good deal.

Tell Exa it's worth more than $20 and offer a larger amount (e.g. $100-$500).

Tell Exa it's worth much more and mutually research & decide on a price.

Something else (explain).

BrianShaw

BrianShaw

Ken Nadvornick

Vaughn

BrianShaw

moose10101

Vaughn

Hatchetman

BrianShaw

BrianShaw

Theo Sulphate

blansky

Theo Sulphate

Old-N-Feeble

Old-N-Feeble

Old-N-Feeble

RobC

RobC

John Koehrer

MattKing

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Vaughn

moose10101

BrianShaw

removed account4

Old-N-Feeble

Would you take advantage of an uninformed seller?

Fred A. Fotoman dies. His widow, Exa, is selling his Leica M3 at a yard sale for $20

Just take it, since no one is looking anyway.

Haggle the price down to $5, telling Exa it's an old film camera no one would use anymore.

Buy it for $20 and congratulate yourself on a good deal.

Tell Exa it's worth more than $20 and offer a larger amount (e.g. $100-$500).

Tell Exa it's worth much more and mutually research & decide on a price.

Something else (explain).

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