Would you buy a camera from Japan?

[frank]

When there's an issue, "putting the shoe on the other foot" is sometimes a helpful way of gaining a new perspective. How would USA buyers feel if they were excluded from sales based on their location?

 

[Sirius Glass]

Shipping outside CONUS is a workplace issue because of the import export laws. Every time I shipped outside CONUS or received from outside CONUS I had to fill out a lot of paper work. That bought scrutiny of management and the customer that I did not want or need. Some times you do not know as much as you think you know. Get over yourself.

 

[AgX]

The incremented posting just did NOT call Conus-only sellers racists.
In a forum consisting of quite a lot of members with a science background I'm surprised by incorrect replication of another post.

But yes, I often see posts that are very chauvinistic. Though maybe I'm that myself.

 

[MartinCrabtree]

Politics has been rearing it's ugly head 'round here all too often recently.

 

[frank]

Shipping outside CONUS is a workplace issue because of the import export laws. Every time I shipped outside CONUS or received from outside CONUS I had to fill out a lot of paper work. That bought scrutiny of management and the customer that I did not want or need. Some times you do not know as much as you think you know. Get over yourself.

Why so serious?

The only issue I see is the need to go to a post office and fill out a form, which everyone in other countries has to do to ship a parcel, even a domestic one. What does it have to do with ones workplace? Please enlighten me.

 

[pschwart]

When there's an issue, "putting the shoe on the other foot" is sometimes a helpful way of gaining a new perspective. How would USA buyers feel if they were excluded from sales based on their location?

That's fine by me. I wouldn't attempt to characterize a person or a business based on their shipping preferences.

 

[frank]

That's fine by me. I wouldn't attempt to characterize a person or a business based on their shipping preferences.

Not trying to characterize, only attempting to have those sellers realize the implications. By imagining that they are the ones discriminated against and how that would feel, they may modify their attitude on this topic of selling outside of the US.

In principle, it would be hypocritical to buy from outside the US, but not sell to outside of US.

 

[Richard S. (rich815)]

Not trying to characterize, only attempting to have those sellers realize the implication. By imagining that they are the ones discriminated against and how that would feel, they may modify their attitude on this topic of selling outside of the US.

And how does this solve the problems I outlined above that I had with overseas shipping.? And while you can characterize going to the PO and waiting on line as only a minor inconvenience it's simply not. For me it's about a 45-60 minute or more event once you consider parking, the lines I run into at my local post offices, etc. Where for CONUS, as mentioned, there's none of that. Even ignoring the lost packages issues above why should I spend such time which translates to about $50 or more based on the time I take away from my sales job and the money I can make otherwise. Will people pay me that premium to sell outside CONUS? Of course not and if I try to add such a surcharge I'll be accused of favoritism or worse. But why I should accept in essence $50 less for my sale?

 

[frank]

And how does this solve the problems I outlined above that I had with overseas shipping.? And while you can characterize going to the PO and waiting on line as only a minor inconvenience it's simply not. For me it's about a 45-60 minute or more event once you consider parking, the lines I run into at my local post offices, etc. Where for CONUS, as mentioned, there's none of that. Even ignoring the lost packages issues above why should I spend such time which translates to about $50 or more based on the time I take away from my sales job and the money I can make otherwise. Will people pay me that premium to sell outside CONUS? Of course not and if I try to add such a surcharge I'll be accused of favoritism or worse. But why I should accept in essence $50 less for my sale?

When I buy and sell photo gear from and to other photo enthusiasts, I often have a feeling of comradery/community and am willing to go the extra mile for someone else sharing my passion, especially in international situations. YMMV, everyone is different.

 

[Ian Grant]

Call it laziness if you want but for CONUS when I can print a label at home in seconds and then just drop the package over the counter in a few seconds, and then have accurate and trackable results that's the way I go. Otherwise I don't have time to deal with it, let alone the forms, or waiting in line or coordinating for the USPS to pick it up, etc. I've sold overseas in the past and admittedly it went well most of the time (the extra effort with forms and lines, drop off/pick up not withstanding), there was 3 instances however when the packages got "lost" and could no longer be tracked once they left the US, and this left both sides bitter and frustrated let alone the time I had to allocate to deal with whole situation with multiple (dozens?) of emails back and forth and even implicit accusations that I never sent anything at all. In one instance I refunded the whole amount as the jerk would simply not let it go, the other two I refunded half as I felt bad. Still not definite the items did not actually arrive in the end either. I lost money AND equipment in the end.

Sorry. I know it's not fair to those outside the US. Just ain't gonna do that again. Not worth my time or the frustration.

Just don't expect those APUG users outside CONUS to treat you normally if you take that kind of attitude. It' highly offensive and down right laziness, your word.

I sell abroad regularly and buy as well and it;s no big deal.

Ian

 

[Richard S. (rich815)]

When I buy and sell photo gear from and to other photo enthusiasts, I often have a feeling of comradery/community and am willing to go the extra mile for someone else sharing my passion, especially in international situations. YMMV, everyone is different.

Yup, and I did it in that spirit for years, until I ran into the problems I outlined above which cost me hundreds of dollars in actual money and lost gear. So what now? CONUS only, except if I know you and trust you? Perhaps...until one package gets lost and the trust is gone plus another $100+ or more too...

 

[frank]

Wouldn't it be funny if this caveat started showing up in the classifieds of over-seas sellers: "Not for sale to those who would not sell internationally themselves."

 

[Richard S. (rich815)]

Just don't expect those APUG users outside CONUS to treat you normally if you take that kind of attitude. It' highly offensive and down right laziness, your word.

I sell abroad regularly and buy as well and it;s no big deal.

Ian

Sorry, Ian. No animosity meant, we'll just have to agree to disagree here. You call it laziness (and I admitted some small part of it is) but you want me to take on risk and time that cost me serious money and frustration in the past and I see that as pretty selfish from your end too. I'm glad it's been no big deal to you. It has to me.

Ok, I've participated too many times in this unsolvable argument here already, I'm done.

 

[Ian Grant]

Yup, and I did it in that spirit for years, until I ran into the problems I outlined above which cost me hundreds of dollars in actual money and lost gear. So what now? CONUS only, except if I know you and trust you? Perhaps...until one package gets lost and the trust is gone plus another $100+ or more too...

You can still have the same issues with CONUS only sales so that's not really a valid argument. The only bad transactions I've had in 20 years have been with US sellers, that says a lot . . . . Some on ebay, one on this Forum.

Where ever the sale is it's about trust and the US is no better than anywhere else

Ian

 

[Dan Fromm]

When there's an issue, "putting the shoe on the other foot" is sometimes a helpful way of gaining a new perspective. How would USA buyers feel if they were excluded from sales based on their location?

Well, Frank, I'm in the US and I buy gear through a variety of French sites including eBay.fr. Some sellers on those sites say they won't ship outside of France, others won't ship outside of the EU.

If the deal looks good enough I ask the seller if he'll ship to me. If the seller says no, the deal looks good enough and the seller will ship to France then I ask a friend in France to buy and forward. If the seller is up for it I'll pay for the item including delivery to my friend.

What frustrates me are sellers who won't ship at all -- the ones who offer pickup only -- and are located far from me and my contacts.

Its ok if the seller won't deal with me. I'm not a collector. No matter what I try to buy a functional equivalent will turn up sooner or later.

 

[Old-N-Feeble]

I take offense from having a very moderate, level headed, reply in this thread deleted.

It was not remotely off topic because it raised issues of buying from different countries including the US, and a few (just a small number) US sellers are the worst in my experience.

Basically it's no different buying from Japan compared to the US, the advantages are the Yen has dropped compared to the Pound and Dollar so items are much cheaper in Japan for some of us at the moment.

The other issue raised was those selling only to CONUS, that's easy to get around , be polite and ask b=nicely, get a 3rd party to buy for you (I've done this a few times). It's largely laziness of US sellers who can have packages picked up by the Post and can't be bothered to go to a Post Office to fill out very simple customs forms for export.

Ian

Ha ha... I was recently permanently banned from LFPF for less of an offense.

 

[Old-N-Feeble]

Call it laziness if you want but for CONUS when I can print a label at home in seconds and then just drop the package over the counter in a few seconds, and then have accurate and trackable results that's the way I go. Otherwise I don't have time to deal with it, let alone the forms, or waiting in line or coordinating for the USPS to pick it up, etc. I've sold overseas in the past and admittedly it went well most of the time (the extra effort with forms and lines, drop off/pick up not withstanding), there was 3 instances however when the packages got "lost" and could no longer be tracked once they left the US, and this left both sides bitter and frustrated let alone the time I had to allocate to deal with whole situation with multiple (dozens?) of emails back and forth and even implicit accusations that I never sent anything at all. In one instance I refunded the whole amount as the jerk would simply not let it go, the other two I refunded half as I felt bad. Still not definite the items did not actually arrive in the end either. I lost money AND equipment in the end.

Sorry. I know it's not fair to those outside the US. Just ain't gonna do that again. Not worth my time or the frustration.

I ship worldwide with just a few exceptions in high-risk areas. Shipping is extremely easy and the customs forms are done for me. It doesn't matter where the item is going.

 

[pschwart]

It's not "one size fits all." We all have our own metrics for defining a successful transaction. Beyond desiring all buyers and sellers to behave honestly and with civility, we don't need to agree on the particulars. Buy where you want, ship where you want; that's your business, no explanations required.

 

[benjiboy]

I wouldn't buy anything from a foreigner, everyone knows they are all crooks especially the Asiatics they are the worst, but the Europeans are also all dishonest and out to con honest folks like us.

 

[frank]

I wouldn't buy anything from a foreigner, everyone knows they are all crooks especially the Asiatics they are the worst, but the Europeans are also all dishonest and out to con honest folks like us.

Ha, ha, ha!

 

[Dan Fromm]

I wouldn't buy anything from a foreigner, everyone knows they are all crooks especially the Asiatics they are the worst, but the Europeans are also all dishonest and out to con honest folks like us.

Y'know, Ben, from the US perspective you're a European.

 

[benjiboy]

Y'know, Ben, from the US perspective you're a European.

I know Dan and I'm happy to be,but in the eyes of many of of my countrymen Europe starts over the English Channel, but I was actually referring to the attitude and unwritten implications of the original posters question.

 

[cb1]

yea sure, I don't have a problem with ordering from Japan. I just received a almost mint RB67 from Japan, I received it 7 days before the advertised delivery date.

 

[benjiboy]

yea sure, I don't have a problem with ordering from Japan. I just received a almost mint RB67 from Japan, I received it 7 days before the advertised delivery date.

C'mon everybody knows that foreigners aren't to be trusted especially Japanese ones, the camera will probably turn out to be a fake

 

[Dan Fromm]

C'mon everybody knows that foreigners aren't to be trusted especially Japanese ones, the camera will probably turn out to be a fake

So says a perfidious albionese.