From what I remember you don't really lose anything with D23 compared to D76. I developed exclusively with D23 for about a year and was happy with the results. Eventually I ended up switching to D96 because I was primarily shooting Eastman 5222.
You could, if you wanted a D76 equivalent that is NOT D23, make D76H, which is similar in its contents to D23:
Water 760 mL (125 F/52 C)
Metol 2g
Sodium Decahydrate 2.5g
WTM 1 L.
I believe that Borax can be used for Sodium Decahydrate—but I’m sure that the chemists on this Forum will clarify ….
The dilutions and times for using D76H are identical to those for D76—according to Troop & Anchell, The Film Developing Cookbook, Second Edition.
Perhaps it might help dcy if we were to only answer the exact question he asked when deciding on the thread's title or even better he were to repeat exactly what it is he needs to know about what if anything he "loses" if he uses D23 instead of D76?
pentaxuser
Water 760 mL (125 F/52 C)
Metol 2g
Sodium Decahydrate 2.5g
WTM 1 L.
I believe that Borax can be used for Sodium Decahydrate—but I’m sure that the chemists on this Forum will clarify ….
Perhaps it might help dcy if we were to only answer the exact question he asked when deciding on the thread's title or even better he were to repeat exactly what it is he needs to know about what if anything he "loses" if he uses D23 instead of D76?
pentaxuser
Metol and sulfite when stored in glass will last for decades.
Haven’t you (unintentionally) omitted the 100g of sodium sulfite?
If we're going to stick to answering the question exactly as posed and not deviate whatsoever, then no - there's "nothing to lose" in choosing D-23 over D-76. However, to achieve the exact same negative density and contrast as you would when using D-76, you may have to give your negs another 1/3 stop exposure and add 10-15% more time to development (over listed D-76 times).
D’oop! Thank you! That’s what happens when one types faster than one thinks? Yes, the formula should insert Sodium Sulfite (anhydrous) 100g after the Metol. [I have found that a pinch of the Sodium Sulfite, added to the water prior to adding the Metol, helps the Metol dissolve quicker.]
He doesn't lose anything. It works virtually the same as D-76.
I've ordered a 1L kit of D-76 and I am looking forward to developing film with the gold standard developer. That will help establish a baseline of what a developed film is supposed to look like.
But... Long term, I'd rather use developers that I can mix myself or are concentrates that never go bad. That would better suit the sporadic & random nature of my photography hobby. I have Rodinal, PC-TEA, and the ingredients & tools (e.g. milligram scale) to mix D-23 in small batches. I know that Rodinal (and I think also PC-TEA?) will give a different look to D-76 because D-76 is a solvent / fine-grain developer. But D-23 is also a fine-grain developer. D-23 is apparently a lower contrast than D-76, but my understanding is that contrast is something I can learn to control with over/under exposure and push/pull processing.
Is there any reason it might not be a good idea to use D-23 as my single fine-grain developer?
You can mix your own equivalent D-76 yourself - the formulas very nearly the same thing are floating around.
Since you're starting out, I'd say go with the D-76 diluted 1:1 for one time use and then discarded.
This is quite subjective. I recommend considering experimental results to make a decision. For example, take some frames and develop them with D-76. Optional, take similar scene and develop them with another developer, such as D23, and place those photos on the right. ...
To control contrast, you can shorten or lengthen development, or lower or raise development temperature, but that doesn't necessarily mean a push or a pull.
You have to be careful if you bring up the terms "push" and "pull", because they often confuse, due to the fact that many associate use of them when referencing combinations of exposure changes and development changes, where those combinations are intended to counteract the effects of exposure changes.
So I generally recommend against using the terms "push" and "pull" unless you are explicitly dealing with adjusting development in response to exposure concerns.
@dcy, in another thread you have explained that you use half-frame 35mm. I suggest you should try D-76 undiluted first to set yourself a yardstick for comparison. Both D-76 and D-23 are solvent developers, producing relatively fine grain, but you might find the results a bit mushy in half-frame. Using them dilute should help somewhat in that respect. Given that you’ve also stated that you’d like simplicity, home mixing and good keeping properties, I suspect Thornton’s 2-bath could suit you well, but I don’t want to seem to be evangelising!
Your experiments with different developers will be plagued by the fact that you have so many variables (lighting, exposure, film type, developer, dilution, temperature, agitation, …) and you will find it difficult to interpret the results. That’s the reason you’ll keep getting the recommendation to become very familiar with one film/dev combination before experimenting further.
The dilutions and times for using D76H are identical to those for D76—according to Troop & Anchell, The Film Developing Cookbook, Second Edition.
To help with the comparison and reduce the number of variables, I can shoot an entire roll with the same 4-6 scenes in rapid succession (e.g. living room, kitchen, backyard tree and front of the house on a sunny day). Then I can cut the film into 3 or 4 equal pieces inside the dark bag and be confident that each piece has every scene. Develop each piece on each of the developers I want to test.
EDIT: I can do the same test whenever I want to test other variables, like development time, or whatnot.
He loses film speed -- which may not matter to him. D-76 has hydroquinone which is an accelerant. He can test it to find out.
I keep hearing people recommend that book. It must be good. I just ordered it on Amazon.
D-76 is just one more ingredient.
One thing to be aware, of however: D-76 from the classic recipe will tend to increase pH (gaining activity) for some period after it's mixed. This is apparently due to a reaction of the hydroquinone with the sulfite and is the reason for D-76H existing. Kodak found a way to beat this for the commercially packaged D-76, but I don't know that their additives for this purpose have been made public. They might have used an improved buffer system (seems most likely), something like adding bisulfite and metaborate to "lock" the pH at the correct level.
To help with the comparison and reduce the number of variables, I can shoot an entire roll with the same 4-6 scenes in rapid succession (e.g. living room, kitchen, backyard tree and front of the house on a sunny day). Then I can cut the film into 3 or 4 equal pieces inside the dark bag and be confident that each piece has every scene. Develop each piece on each of the developers I want to test.
EDIT: I can do the same test whenever I want to test other variables, like development time, or whatnot.
One thing to be aware, of however: D-76 from the classic recipe will tend to increase pH (gaining activity) for some period after it's mixed. This is apparently due to a reaction of the hydroquinone with the sulfite and is the reason for D-76H existing. Kodak found a way to beat this for the commercially packaged D-76, but I don't know that their additives for this purpose have been made public. They might have used an improved buffer system (seems most likely), something like adding bisulfite and metaborate to "lock" the pH at the correct level.
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