Wondering About Developing Film

[Donald Qualls]

I guess that's easy enough to try, at least for a leader test to verify the stuff is (or isn't) still usable. I'm just wary because I had 80 or so grams of CD-4 in that shed, and it turned dark greenish-brown and when mixed into developer made a solution like flat cola with the ice melted in it. I need to look at it again, to see if it was just very slow dissolution, but...

 

[braxus]

Getting a little closer to getting the supplies I need to get going. Matt King is helping me out there and Im meeting him to gather it this week. Then its off to order chemicals from 2 stores.

 

[braxus]

Just got back from meeting Matt. He was generous in his offering of supplies to help get me started. Thanks Matt! Its kinda cool to put a face on members that live near you. All I really need now is a few things and some chemicals.

 

[braxus]

https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B00T7ZGZOE/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Just ordered this for the Xtol 5L packets.

Im also getting two 4L jugs of distilled water from my workplace, as they only want $3-4 dollars per jug for them.

 

[MattKing]

https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B00T7ZGZOE/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Just ordered this for the Xtol 5L packets.

Im also getting two 4L jugs of distilled water from my workplace, as they only want $3-4 dollars per jug for them.

London Drugs is the cheapest source I've found.
It was good to actually meet you - social distancing and masks notwithstanding.
Hope you get lots of great use out of everything, including the 40+ year old Kodak Tank and Tray thermometer! Don't you love the price sticker on it?

 

[braxus]

My workplace sells the stuff, so I get staff discount. For 2 4L jugs it worked out to 6.77 including taxes. I can handle that.

 

[Donald Qualls]

Either distilled water has gone up, or it costs more in Canada. I can buy distilled water in gallons (3.8 L) for around US$2 locally, and "drinking water" which is the same stuff with a trace of sodium bicarbonate added "for taste" for around a buck and a half. Bigger jugs cost a little less per gallon.

However, my partner keeps a reef aquarium, and installed a Reverse Osmosis, De-Ionized water system, so I can get all the water I want, at least as pure as most distilled, for just helping with filter and media changes as needed. Our actual cost for this water is close to twenty cents a gallon...

 

[braxus]

Everything in Canada costs 30 to 50 percent more then the USA, if you take the exchange rate into account. Im not concerned about the $7 I paid for 8Ls of water. Its a small price to pay in the big scheme of things. Chemicals cost quite a bit more, even up to $56 for a container of HC-110 syrup.

 

[braxus]

Do you know the fluid levels of 1 reel and 2 reels in 35mm, and 1 reel of 120 are for the Paterson 2 reel tank? What about an 8x10 drum?

How long do you think Xtol will last before it goes bad if kept in a sealed 5L wine bag?

Here are some pictures of the drum. What are the procedures on using it and developing? For 4x5, 5x7, and 8x10 sheets?

 

[braxus]

I was told to look at the bottom of the Paterson tank. There it was. 290ml per 35mm reel and 500ml for 120.

The paper drum I have no clue. Some say 200ml, but that doesn't sound like very much for something that big inside.

 

[Huub]

How long do you think Xtol will last before it goes bad if kept in a sealed 5L wine bag?

Depends a lot on the quality of the water you used to dissolve the developer and of course the storage temperature as well, but when you use demineralized water and keep storage temperatures at bay, half a year should be no issue. There are plenty of reports of even longer storage times. When in doubt you can do a clip test. XTOL has the habit of going dead all of a sudden, so when the clip develops to a nice black it is still good.

 

[Donald Qualls]

In a drum, you can process with a tiny amount of liquid. If the drum is level, end to end, I've heard as little as 60ml for an 8x10 print (follow drum maker's instructions; this likely varies between brands). The solution just has to make a "puddle" that runs evenly from end to end, so it wets the whole print when you roll the drum, and then have enough developing agent/capacity to develop the entire print without excessive exhaustion.

 

[Deleted member 88956]

In a drum, you can process with a tiny amount of liquid. If the drum is level, end to end, I've heard as little as 60ml for an 8x10 print (follow drum maker's instructions; this likely varies between brands). The solution just has to make a "puddle" that runs evenly from end to end, so it wets the whole print when you roll the drum, and then have enough developing agent/capacity to develop the entire print without excessive exhaustion.

But the smaller you go the more math of exhaustion comes into play. This affects film and paper and is no small matter to overlook.

Physically a small puddle across a level drum botom should suffice. Will it be enough to complete development though? Worse, as one plays too much with taking things that low, consistency becomes another issue. What a 60 or a 100 ml may do to one sheet, it may not to another. Then one starts adding the extra developer needed to keep going, as that "one-shot-glass" of liquid will expire quickly and new one needs to be used.

All in all, I find these experiments with tiny amounts inconsistent with common sense and not economical at all. Even amounts on bottom of Paterson tank I find borderline safe and always go a bit higher.

 

[Donald Qualls]

@Witold I'm just quoting what the drum manufacturers suggest. Obviously, the tiny quantity is used one-shot, and the whole thing takes into account the exaustion factor (in fact, developer exhaustion is part of what makes color developers work -- contrast control in prints via peroxide and sulfite is playing on increasing or decreasing the oxidation of the developing agent to produce the dyes that ultimately color the final result. There are a lot of years of experience behind the developer quantities for prints in rolling drums; I'm inclined to believe the manufacturer of the drum or chemistry.

 

[braxus]

With the internal ribs inside the drum, is there any chance of scratching the 8x10 sheet, especially when trying to remove it out of the drum?

Also just a note for me- when feeling for the notches on the upper right side of the sheet, the emulsion side would be facing you- correct?

And with the drum- how fast would you roll it on the floor while developing film? And you keep rolling it for the entire duration I take it?

With the drum I have, does the 4x5 sheet site sideways or vertically in the slots in the drum?

 

[Donald Qualls]

The drums I'm familiar with are for prints, not mainly for film. Some people use them for negatives, however. Print drums are usually smooth inside, from what I've seen/read (haven't yet gotten the one I ordered).

Edit: okay, went back and looked at the photo. Those ribs are to let the solutions get under the sheet, and that drum is meant for film. You shouldn't have a big problem with base side scratches in that drum design. The larger V-shaped rib is to separate two sheets.

 

[braxus]

Donald- do the 4x5 sheets sit sideways in the slots or vertically? And would I use the slots for 8x10 or just slide it in anywhere?

 

[MattKing]

Donald- do the 4x5 sheets sit sideways in the slots or vertically? And would I use the slots for 8x10 or just slide it in anywhere?

Try cutting some paper to the exact size of a sheet of 8x10 and experiment tin the light.
If you have developed 4x5 negatives, use them.
The ribs are there to hold the sheets in position.

 

[pbromaghin]

My tube has ingenious caps that allow you to poor out one solution while pouring in the next. On the inlet cap there is a cup that holds the liquid until you lay it down and start rolling. The tube is designed for 8x10 paper and the cup will hold a maximum of 250ml.

 

[Sirius Glass]

I prefer the Jobo 3010 Expert Drum on a Jobo processor for 4"x5" film. I get consistent results for black & white and color.

 

[braxus]

SO I tried developing my first 8x10 sheet in a unicolor paper drum. Most of the developer leaked out within a couple minutes. Where can I get a replacement gasket for this unit? I obviously cant use it till its fixed.

 

[braxus]

I heated up the plastic gasket to try and refitt it into the lid. Ended up melting it. So now I need a plastic gasket as well. I don't see any sources for this either.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Have you considered picking up a BTZS tube, or just making one yourself?

 

[Donald Qualls]

A short length of 3" ABS drain pipe and a couple glue-on caps (not glued, they'll be watertight just pushed on), a short piece of smaller pipe and its matching cap, plus a square of black ABS sheet to form a light baffle inside the cap, and you get an 8x10 daylight tank. Pretty inefficient on volume, though, and slow to fill and drain. Still, for four or five bucks...

There are ways to make this work like a BTZS tube, too (with very small developer volume and continuous agitation), but those depend on having an actual darkroom to work in (where the tubes can be kept standing, developer at the bottom and film in the upper section, until all are loaded), at which point you may as well develop single sheets in trays, at least until you need to process more than two for a single outing.