Wondering About Developing Film

braxus · Sep 26, 2020

My current residence does not have a room that could be used for a dark room. All I have is a changing bag. Since I do B&W often, what would be recommended to get going in developing film (35mm, 120) in a room that would not be light tight? I would most likely use my bathroom because of the sink. My developer of choice would be Xtol. I live in BC Canada. I have used the metal reels before, but have found my rolling technique not always perfect. So I'd prefer a reel that is foolproof to roll. Its been 27 years since I've developed my own film, so I'd be rusty at it. Also what are people doing about silver recovery? Or are you just dumping it down the sink anyway? What kind of water do you use to mix the chemicals? I also have 4x5 and 8x10, but I dont really want to tackle those formats myself. So let me know what equipment you suggest to get me going, including the hangers to let the film dry. I Shop at Freestyle in the USA and Beau Photo in Canada.

Paul Howell · Sep 26, 2020

I would get a Patterson 2 reel tank, it will take one 120 roll or 2 35 rolls, easy to load, drain quickly, bit mouth, easy to fill as well. If you using Extol use it once and dump it I have a dark room in a bathroom, last 25 years or so, I dry film in the shower, hung strands fishing line between 2 walls, my shower is only fiberglass 2/3rd the height of the shower stall, could work in bath enclosure and plastic clothes pins to hold the film to the line and weight on the bottom. It that not an option, look a collapsible clothes hanger that can be set in the shower or bath to hang your film. I mix D76 and MCM 100 with tap water, Rodinal with distilled water, fixe tap, perma wash tap water, photo flo distilled water. Here in the desert Southwest our water is so hard I use a 2 bath photo flo set up. In terms of silver recovery, I called my city wast water department, they told me that there are so few home dark rooms and such a large amount of waste waster which is treated before use a a coolant at the nuclear power plant not to worry about it. They do monitor the few remaining commercial labs, only one left in Scottsdale.

braxus · Sep 26, 2020

I see Xtol only mixes for 5Ls now. What container big enough would I mix that in? Also does Xtol keep over time for the remaining amount you don't use? What container would I keep it stored in for that? Freestyle sells Xtol in powder, which works for me. I might use Ilford for the fixer though. Some films I use might need a hardening fixer though like Efke. Do they mail out chemicals to you, even across the border?

braxus · Sep 26, 2020

Paul Howell said:
I would get a Patterson 2 reel tank, it will take one 120 roll or 2 35 rolls, easy to load,

Beau Photo sells the Patterson tank, as I think Freestyle does as well. How do their reels load? My water isn't very hard here, though it does have minerals in it and chlorine. Would using distilled water be better? Also what amount of liquid does the Patterson tank use?

Paul Howell · Sep 26, 2020

One of the reasons I've avoided Xtol. When Xtol was released it was made in 1 lit kits, I had one that had the sudden death, although it's been fixed just never returned to it. Freestyle sells the Foma version of
extol in 1 liter kits, rather expensive. If you dont shoot a lot of 120 or 35mm you might try Tmax, DDX or HC 110, high concentration single use last a long time, one of the reason folks like Rodinal, which I use with slow films Not sure if Freestyle will ship international, but I use Photography Formulary T4 and 4 alkalines rapid fixer. I no longer use an acid stop bath for film just a water stop then the fix. If you have Efke then a standard fix, a gallon of a Kodak Clone from Freestyle. I do use a standard fix for fiber base paper and a acid stop bath. Check on Amazon for a 5 liter bottles.

But, if it were me, I would use HC 110, mix before use, water stop bath, T5 fix, wash, then photo plo and dry, need just one 1 gallon bottle for the fix. one gallon of distilled water with photo flo added.

PFGS · Sep 26, 2020

braxus said:
I see Xtol only mixes for 5Ls now. What container big enough would I mix that in? Also does Xtol keep over time for the remaining amount you don't use? What container would I keep it stored in for that? Freestyle sells Xtol in powder, which works for me. I might use Ilford for the fixer though. Some films I use might need a hardening fixer though like Efke. Do they mail out chemicals to you, even across the border?

Here is how to make the 5L Xtol easy: get a nice new 2 gallon plastic bucket - I picked mine up for like $8 in the cleaning supplies aisle of Home Depot. Use it to mix the Xtol and never use it for anything else; likewise a dedicated non-metalic something to stir with. I use distilled water for cheap insurance. Once it's mixed, pour it into 5 one liter containers, right up to the brim so there is no air.

You don't need a darkroom. Using a changing bag to load a daylight tank is fine. Personally for 35mm I prefer Hewes stainless steel reels over Patterson plastic, but either way the key is to practice with junk film until it is second nature.

All the chemistry I use can go down the sink, except used fixer. Luckily I have a local photo place that will take that for silver recovery.

Paul Howell · Sep 26, 2020

My 2 reel patterson takes 500ml for 120 or 2 35s and 290 ml for single roll of 35mm. It works by a ratcheting action, you see a demo on You Tube I have not had any issues using tap water for D76 or MCM 100, fix or perma wash, to be the safe side I do distilled water when using Rodinal 1:50 or 1:100. Chlorine? Some would say yes, but in past 55 years never has been an issue for me. When I was in the Air Force my boss wanted a distilled water system for the darkroom, his boss called Kodak, and after a bit finally was told that if the base water was fit enough to drink it was good enough for black and white, distilled water was recommended for color. We didn't get a system but did get enough bottled distilled water for color and photo flo. BTW Patterson makes a 4X5 insert for the 2 reel tank.

braxus · Sep 26, 2020

I saw a video about a guy mixing the 5Ls of Xtol. He recommended as you did a 2 gallon container marked at 4L and 5L. He used the 1L containers to put it into. Seems pretty simple. I want to use Xtol, because I have used it for years in the lab and I like the results. And its safer to use.

osella · Sep 26, 2020

As PFGS said those Home Depot buckets are prefect, I think I may have used the ones meant for paint.

As to storing I’ve used these: https://www.amazon.com/Wine-Bag-Box-Kit-Eco-Friendly/dp/B07BR674P3 . You can get all the air out and I’ve had Xtol last for over a year. I use distilled water exclusively as my water is very hard.

Sirius Glass · Sep 26, 2020

I put XTOL in squeezable bags tightly sealed. I recommend this bag which even allows me to load Grafmatic 45s.

https://www.freestylephoto.biz/25001-Photoflex-Changing-Room

braxus · Sep 26, 2020

osella said:
As PFGS said those Home Depot buckets are prefect, I think I may have used the ones meant for paint.

As to storing I’ve used these: https://www.amazon.com/Wine-Bag-Box-Kit-Eco-Friendly/dp/B07BR674P3 . You can get all the air out and I’ve had Xtol last for over a year. I use distilled water exclusively as my water is very hard.

That bag seems like a perfect solution. You can use the amount you need and the rest stays in there. Does it pour out easily without making a mess, or is it tricky?

braxus · Sep 26, 2020

When using the Patterson tank, if you only do one reel, you guys mention to fill it less. Does this cause an issue when inverting the tank while developing, or do you even do that anymore?

PhotoJim · Sep 26, 2020

Years ago I bought a 5-litre mixup pail from a chemical supply house here in Canada (I might still have an email record of the purchase). It solved the problem with mixing 5L batches of chemicals. I've done XTOL and Bromophen in it.

Still, for a beginner, I would never recommend XTOL, as good as it is. The batch size is too large, and the chemical doesn't obviously change appearance as it degrades. One-litre packs of Kodak D76 or Ilford ID-11 (which can be used interchangeably; they are functionally the same) are much more manageable. (When I was first getting serious about darkroom work, Ilford still made 600 mL packs of ID-11 which I found perfect - with 1+1 dilution, I could do 4 135-36 rolls, and it wouldn't take me long to use up the developer so it never got old.)

braxus · Sep 26, 2020

Im not exactly a beginner. I've just been out of it for a very long time. I see Fomadon Excel on Freestyles website. It makes 1L. Is this basically exactly like Xtol or does it vary in terms of developing times, etc? Also it says it will do 12 rolls. Does that refer to reusing the developer, or does that mean you dilute the solution further when developing? I doubt you'd dilute it more, but again I've never used this stuff myself.

Paul Howell · Sep 26, 2020

braxus said:
When using the Patterson tank, if you only do one reel, you guys mention to fill it less. Does this cause an issue when inverting the tank while developing, or do you even do that anymore?

Mine stays put when inverting, I know others use both reels when developing a single roll of 35mm.

Paul Howell · Sep 26, 2020

braxus said:
Im not exactly a beginner. I've just been out of it for a very long time. I might checkout Fomas 1L version of Xtol.

Freestyle sells the Foma version
https://www.freestylephoto.biz/7002...W27)-Powder-(Ascorbic-Acid)-Film-Developer-to

braxus · Sep 26, 2020

Paul Howell said:
Freestyle sells the Foma version
https://www.freestylephoto.biz/7002...W27)-Powder-(Ascorbic-Acid)-Film-Developer-to

I might consider this to use. Does it vary in anyway from Xtol, in terms of developing or results? Do you reuse your developer 12 times like they suggest? Since the Paterson tank only uses around 500ml, that leaves half the solution for later.

The Fomadon says it doesnt Contains no Hydroquinone (HQ). Does Xtol have that in it? What is it needed for?

braxus · Sep 26, 2020

What reels does the 2 reel Paterson tank include? I'd need a 120 reel as well, so does that come with it or would it be needed separately? I dont see their reels sold separately.

Also what fixer are people recommending? Ilfo Rapid Fix?

Bormental · Sep 26, 2020

braxus said:
What reels does the 2 reel Paterson tank include? I'd need a 120 reel as well, so does that come with it or would it be needed separately? I dont see their reels sold separately.

Also what fixer are people recommending? Ilfo Rapid Fix?

I was exactly in your shoes about a year ago. Let's go one by one:

Paterson 4 system is sold by B&H with two reels included. I have tried 3rd party reels, but ultimately Paterson stuff is great after some practice. Initially I was constrained by only being able to process one 120 film at a time, but eventually learned to load two films on one reel, and now I'm quite happy with my setup: I process two films at a time, then reload 2 more, so 4 per session.
I use this 5L beaker to mix Xtol. It's actually handy to have around during development, as I pre-fill it with 21C water for washing (my tap water is too cold).
I use amber glass bottles for everything. These 1L bottles and half-gallon ones. One 5L bag of Xtol lasts me about 3 months, never had problems with expiration, even if a bottle is occasionally half-full.
For fixer, I started with Ilford's fix, but switched to TF-5 because it is, apparently, easier to wash and for faster fix times. Honestly, did not notice any difference. I process 12-13 films per liter.
Disposal: developer goes down the drain, but I collect fixer and dispose it at a local hazmat facility.

Also, I highly recommend you start with one-shot development. Xtol, especially if mixed 1:1, is not expensive. Once you become comfortable with the results, then try to optimize for economy (or anything else).

I started with straight, one-shot Xtol and loved the results. Then I switched to 1:1 one-shot routine, loved the results for some films, but not others (my HP5+ results got worse). Finally, I switched to replenished Xtol, which gives you crazy economy and great quality, but to do that you have to establish the base line, a frame of reference, and that, in my opinion, is straight one-shot Xtol.

braxus · Sep 26, 2020

I take it Xtol 1:1 is half developer and half water? I'd probably use it straight myself.

pentaxuser · Sep 26, 2020

Braxus have you noted that the Foma Excel makes 1L but costs only U.S. $2.50 less than Xtol that makes 5 L? If you get the 5 L winebag I'd be surprised if It doesn't keep at least a year. Mine in winebags keeps longer than this. It would look as if Xtol is the cheaper option even if you do end up discarding some due to your low volume of films.

pentaxuser

Paul Howell · Sep 26, 2020

braxus said:
I take it Xtol 1:1 is half developer and half water? I'd probably use it straight myself.

Extol can mixed at several different strengths stock 1:1 1:2 and 1:3, here is listing posted times for Xtol, same as Excel posted by various users on the Massive Development Chart. These are time others have used and can vary quite a bit. Diluting a developer can increase grain with better acutance.

https://www.digitaltruth.com/devchart.php?Film=&Developer=%Xtol%&mdc=Search&TempUnits=C&TimeUnits=D

braxus · Sep 26, 2020

Is there any reason not to get the 3 reel tank over the 2 reel tank? I might get the 3 reel, so 4x5 is an option. Is the 3 reel tank still good even when only doing 1 35mm roll?

braxus · Sep 26, 2020

https://www.bounetphoto.com/bounet-shop/bs-4x5-developing-reel

Saw this for 4x5. Looks like a better option then the Mod 54 version. Price is about the same for me here in Canada.

MattKing · Sep 26, 2020

Get the three reel Super System 4 tank - it will take two of the reels adjusted to 120 size, and a 4x5 Mod 54 reel.
Then watch Craigslist for a back-up two reel tank.
And maybe you can help me convince Nicole at Beau Photo to start bringing X-Tol when it is available again - she stopped when she got spooked by the furor over at rangefinderforum when the batch with the defective packaging happened relatively recently.
As far as reels, I actually prefer the Arista Premium reels in my Paterson tanks, because they work well with 135, and work well with and are much easier to use with 120.
Here is the listing: https://www.freestylephoto.biz/55043-Arista-Premium-Plastic-Developing-Reel
I may have an extra 2 reel tank and 2 reels (Paterson) - reach out by PM if you want me to look.

Wondering About Developing Film

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