Wondering about challenges of a darkroom in an outbuilding with poor climate control

loccdor

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Hi, I've been wondering about the challenges of creating a darkroom in a shed without much ability to control the temperature. Let's assume a small heater could be used in winter to get indoor air temperature into the 50F (10C) range. Winter is long here, about half the year. In summer the temperatures could be as hot as 90F (32C) with no way to lower them, though usually less. Chemicals could be stored off-site, mixed and carried in as necessary.

What are some challenges you could run into making prints with an enlarger in such an environment? Are there some developers that perform much better over a wide temperature range? Would there be some printing techniques that would become a hassle or impossible?

Thanks for your input as I consider if this can be a realistic option. My house is too small to dedicate a darkroom or even store an enlarger, with no available basement or attic space, but I do have plenty of room to expand into outbuildings. I would rather not use a shared public darkroom. I'm sure there are ideas I have not thought of. It would be great to hear your experiences if you've tried something similar.
 

wiltw

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Developers with a nominal 60 sec. time of development at 68 degree F generally have a useful range of 45-120 sec...but some have NO useful range listed.
Developers with a nominal 90 sec. time of development at 68 degree F generally have a useful range of 60-180 sec
Developers with a nominal 120 sec. time of development at 68 degree F generally have a useful range of 90-240 sec.

Generally, darkroom computers in darkroom guides give no information about adjusting developing time for paper for temperature.
 

flowerpunk

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My darkroom is a room attached behind my garage here in south Louisiana. Its has electricity but , isn’t connected to the heating and air and no running water. What I did was in winter I use a small portable heater and then rigged up a Window AC . I didn’t want to go though a wall so I mounted the Air Conditioner in an opening in a door. It’s works for me .
 

revdoc

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I think it would work. My last work space here in Sydney got as warm as 28C in the summer. That wasn't a problem, but I stored paper somewhere cooler. Prints developed a little faster.

Cold is a bigger issue, but I think it would mostly only affect processing (assuming you can stand the cold!) You might be able to keep the working chemicals warmer than the room. Maybe heating mats under the trays would work.

I'm assuming monochrome printing. Colour has tighter requirements and might not be viable.
 

cliveh

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A darkroom in a shed is not a good idea. Haven't you got somewhere in the house you could use?
 

MattKing

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cliveh said:
A darkroom in a shed is not a good idea. Haven't you got somewhere in the house you could use?
Click to expand...

Very few houses around here provide a suitable space, at least not one that can be set aside for darkroom purposes, so I understand the desire to re-purpose a shed.
Particularly considering how expensive even the most pedestrian of houses are now.
 

cliveh

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MattKing said:
Very few houses around here provide a suitable space, at least not one that can be set aside for darkroom purposes, so I understand the desire to re-purpose a shed.
Particularly considering how expensive even the most pedestrian of houses are now.
Click to expand...

He lives in the USA. You live in Canada, so how do you know his situation?
 

Paul Howell

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If you have the shed, it can be fitted with a heater, as you live in warm climate then a small wall mounted AC unit,. Is the shed well insulated? How much trouble will be be to bring water in. How light tight is it? If you don't own a shed then the cost of building will be considerable. Are there building codes for outbuildings in your city? In the 70s while living in Sacramento a friend of mine was still living wither her parents, no room for a darkroom so her father built on in travel trailer. He had really good skills and turned a Beseler 23C into a horizontal enlarger, hose to the trailer for water, and (it was the 70s) just let wash water run down the gutter. It had a heater and AC, only time she could work in it was in high winds which rocked it.
 

MattKing

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cliveh said:
He lives in the USA. You live in Canada, so how do you know his situation?
Click to expand...

The exact particulars of his situation are unknown to me - my observation was intended to give an example that indicates that for many people, in many areas, converting space for darkroom use in a house is a real challenge.
It takes a lot to justify converting livable space in a house to darkroom use when each square foot of house costs several hundred dollars to acquire.
That applies just as much in the US as Canada.
 

pentaxuser

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A darkroom in a shed is not a good idea. Haven't you got somewhere in the house you could use?


It seems to me that given the potential problems of an outdoor shed, the OP has likely given some thought to converting part of a house to a darkroom and for good reasons has eliminated that option so if our intention is to help him we need to ask the right questions of him in terms of what outlay he can afford in terms of a shed and then within that outlay give him the best advice we can

pentaxuser
 

RalphLambrecht

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the environmental needs of a darkroomare pretty much like your own. If you feel comfortable in it so will the darkroom, You want to be somewhere around 20C.
 

mshchem

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One big consideration is not simply warming or cooling a small shed. You will need ventilation.

Maybe useful most of the time is good enough.
 
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loccdor

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Thanks for the input everyone. I'll give more information. My house is 700 square feet, no basement, lived in by myself, my wife, and my big dog. It's tight. Two small bedrooms. Tiny bathroom. We use all the space. I develop film in the kitchen sink.

It's on a half acre of land though and I'm able to build as many small outbuildings as I want regarding the building code, as long as they are small enough and with a certain distance between them. One large shed came with the house, and I've almost finished building a second, smaller shed. I needed the shed for the extra space already, but being able to make prints in it would be a bonus.

When I was living in an apartment, I actually made a 3 foot x 3 foot closet into a usable darkroom for 5x7 prints with a Beseler 23C enlarger (haha!). Standing room only. This would be a little bigger, probably 8 foot x 4 foot.

The shed is not currently insulated but I could add insulation to the darkroom portion of it without much trouble. It's about 80 feet from the house, no plumbing so I'd have to carry the liquids, I can use a wheeled cart to help with that. I have an extension cord that can reach it but I'd more be thinking along the lines of running stuff from one of those 1000-watt-hour battery stations. That could power the enlarger bulb, any other lights or fans, and a small electric space heater for short amounts of time. Of course I'd have to put in the effort to make everything light-tight.


That's awesome Paul, I like the idea of a darkroom trailer.
 

MattKing

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You could use the dog to help warm the shed .
 

mshchem

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Sounds like you have given this some thought. Water is no big deal, I'm the first generation in my family who has always had running water and a flush toilet all along. My dad never got used to using water like most people do

You can hang a 5 gallon bucket and run siphon, use a grounded extension cord, prints and film will dry just fine from 40-100° F.

Regarding trailers, been almost 30 years ago I bought a little 4x8 trailer, came in a box. I still have that trailer, I recently bought home a bunch of lumber, still works great.

Go for it and report back!
 

fiddle

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My darkroom is in a small room I built in my detached garage. Insulated walls and ceiling when putting walls up.
The garage does have electricity, no plumbing though. In winter I have a small portable heater that does a good job keeping the room warm, have to deal with summer next month, Im guessing a portable a/c should be sufficient.
As far as water, I have a water hose spigot i attach my home water hose to it, that spigot is plumed to a sink in the garage darkroom. chemicals get bottled, run off water just goes to my yard. |
Tricky in winter months to avoid water hoses from freezing, but thats for a short time out of the year.
 
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loccdor

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mshchem said:
Maybe useful most of the time is good enough.
Click to expand...

True! I could live with 9 months out of the year.


Good idea. Yeah, I was thinking about hanging a water container from the ceiling, putting a sink in below it, and a bucket under the sink to collect the waste liquids. I happen to have a spare sink collecting dust anyway.

MattKing said:
You could use the dog to help warm the shed .
Click to expand...

Hope he likes the smell of fixer... but putting a dog bed in the non-photo portion of it is on my to do list.
 

mshchem

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My boyhood darkroom was about 6 x 6 feet, the sink was a Rubbermaid wash basin with a garden hose drain that ran to a floor drain, a cold water faucet, with corrugated cardboard walls, in a basement corner of our big old house that had been used as a coal bin.
I didn't have running water until I had been at it a couple years.

It was really cold in the winter, humid all summer.
 

MTGseattle

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So many follow-on questions;

Does the shed have traditionally framed walls that you could insulate? Ignore that, I read your posts more thoroughly.

Based upon what you have said, power is your bigger issue. Do you know how big your main service is? 100amp or 200amp would be the most common for residential in the US (small house).

It would take a lot of labor, but not a ton of money to get a run of power from your house out to the shed if your existing service and panel can handle it. I like the idea of a battery pack, but man it would suck to run out of juice mid-session.
 

eli griggs

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There are a number of passive cooling systems you can try out, starting out with a home built solar chimney, that will draw hot air up and out, especially if you have a inside fan to pressurize your shed slightly.

The action of forcing hot air out during the heat of the day eventually becomes strong enough to carry on without the fan being on.

Another choice, used on its own or in tandem with other methods, is cooling by way of earthenware ceramics, filled with water.

These can be self-made or bought and work by way of evaporation through the non-vitrified clay body.

Think red earthenware wine coolers, but taller or in a panel or tile-like system.

Large Terra Cotta jars also work, but have a large footprint, but you can suspend these from rafters with macrame nets, etc.

If you are very lucky and have a large shed/building, you can use baled, either half or full sized, to build in a mass that will give you a very good insulated space, though you'll need to use thin wall board and laith-like vertical 2" wide boards to enclose the inner straw walls to keep dust away from your darkroom materials and equipment.

A top thickness of isolated bails and if possible a bottom, false floor, if the head space is there, will make you basically a cave (from full bales) that should keep cool and warmth in year round.

Making a thinner, insolated door from more conventional materials is the most practical and simple way to keep in cool or out cold, year round, but, I personally suggest a inner or outside weather entrance would be best for a darkroom.

Lastly, in this post, is the possibility of digging in a earth cooling system, made of a circulating grid of tubes running air or water to exchange heat for coolness, which can, be best used with other methods mentioned.

There are other methods and we as a community, can best suggest solutions if you can give us the dimensions and building particulars to consider.

Cheers and Good Luck.

IMO.
 

grahamp

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Since I am in California (San Francisco latitude), it rarely hit freeing in winter, but could get hot in summer. I insulated part of a wooden shed, and added an extraction fan. It had basic power, and water was brought in in a container smaller than my drain bucket (if you bring in less than you have to dispose, floods are less likely!). Heating was an electric oil-filled heater with a thermostat. Cooling meant starting early in the morning, and using ice judiciously. I made a mistake with the fan, and put it in the ceiling. Great in the summer, but it pulled warm air out in the winter. In a more extreme climate it might be worth looking at some way of warming/cooling a dedicated air inlet.

There are pictures at my original Darkroom Project.
 

mshchem

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RalphLambrecht said:
Yes, but that's easy to install with a small i-wall exhaust fan made light-tight.
Click to expand...

Here in Iowa City (apx. 200 miles west of Chicago), it's just too darn cold in the winter. Make up air for ventilation comes in well below 0°C. I have a beautiful fume removal system in my darkroom but I really need incoming outside air, doesn't even need to be in the darkroom.

But again, when the weather is like this I just don't make a stink, and my darkroom is pretty huge.
 

Pioneer

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I don't know if this would help but I use an old camper as my darkroom. I was able to buy it for a very low price because it had some structural issues caused by a roof leak. It isn't perfect but I have done some work to fix the roof and the floor. I wouldn't trust it to drag it very far down the road any longer but as a small external darkroom I have learned to work with it. I fill gallon jugs of water and bring them in and dispose of waste rinse water into my flower garden using a couple of plastic 5 gallon pails. Waste developing fluids are taken to our local waste facility and disposed of at their waste water facility. The fresh water that is stored is kept in the old tub/shower so even if a bottle freezes and splits it isn't a big issue. When it is really cold outdoors I fill a couple of gallon jugs in the sink indoors and bring them out as needed. The camper does have a propane forced air heater and a small electric cooler, both of which can be started at need and run while I am working. It does have an exhaust fan over the cook stove. It is plugged in to the house electric main via a heavy duty extension cord. My son is an electrician and was able to ensure that my electrical service for exterior use is adequate for the darkroom needs. My biggest problem was adequately covering windows and roof vents in the small back portion to set up a dark area for printing. Light is harder to keep out than you think.
 
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