Winding 120 film onto a stainless steel reel straight

[tkamiya]

I wonder if there is a trick to this....

It only happens with 120 films and with stainless steel reels.

When I wind the film onto a reel, I have to clip beginning of the film onto middle of a reel. I can usually do this fairly well but films are not always EXACTLY parallel to the spool on the side. So it winds up *slightly crooked. When that happens, side of the film in rebate area gets dented at where it hits the spoke part of the side. It doesn't go into image areas but it is still dented. This tend to happen very close to the beginning of the wind where angles are acute.

Do you get these too? Is there a trick? I try my best to feel the pressure and angle but it's not always perfect.

 

[paul ron]

It takes practice. If you have a roll you can sacrifice, play with it in the light till you get the feel for it. Practice till you can do it with your eyes closed.

Its just a feel.

I think there is a metal feeder but i never used or had one.

 

[Dan Daniel]

Practice. That's the trick.

Learn to use your fingers that are holding the reel to feel the two corners of the film end. I don't have a reel in hand, but I seem to remember that I can use these fingers if I start the film at enough of an angle. Feed the film at an angle towards the clip, feel the film with the holding fingers' tips, and direct it from there.

And practice. Practice feeling the film going off course so you can stop before you crimp it.

 

[Mainecoonmaniac]

You don't have to use the clip to anchor the film to your reel. If you by pass the clip, you can wiggle film to align the film. Once the film goes around the reel once, the film is aligned than it should be easier from there.

 

[DWThomas]

I find I can clip and start the roll, but with about 3/4 wrap made onto the reel, I reach up and under and gently press the spring tab (Hewes reel) which lets any tension built up by misalignment relax. From there, all is well.

Er, at least most days! :confused:

 

[tkamiya]

Yes, I can do it with my eyes closed. I can even do it in my darkroom with one eye closed and the other eye blinking morse code! I have been doing this for several years.... still, I get those "dents".....

 

[Tom1956]

Don't use the clip. Find another opening without a clip. If you have a SS reel with a clip, get rid of it and find one without one. Those stupid clips, of any design, are awful. I hate them.

 

[bsdunek]

As some have said, don't use the clip. I don't use the clip for 35, 120 or any other size film. It allows the film to center when it's free.

 

[Nuff]

If you don't want to use the clip, crease the first 5mm of the leading part of film. That should act like a hook that latches the film on to the start of the reel.

I have LSL reel and I do pretty much full turn of film before I latch the clip. I find this prevents any misalignment.

 

[tkamiya]

crease the first 5mm of the leading part of film. That should act like a hook that latches the film on to the start of the reel

Thank you, I'll try this.

 

[Truzi]

I get it started on the clip, then wiggle it back and forth a bit to help align it. I will also be fairly relaxed when spooling the film, letting it settle every couple turns. As long as I don't keep it too taut at the clip, it usually settles in nicely.

On one reel I had, though, this did not work. After putting it on a flat surface, and examining it closely, I found the reel was just a little bent (it was a used reel I got in a box of items).

 

[bdial]

I like to start the film using the taped end. I've not removed the clips from my reels, but sometimes they do make things more difficult.

 

[MattKing]

You can use the steel reels with 120 without using the clip, but if you try to use rotary agitation, the film will be prone to walking itself out of the reel. Trying the "kink" tip might help with that.
The clips are the reason I don't use steel reels for 120, even though I would like to have the choice.

 

[Tom1956]

You can use the steel reels with 120 without using the clip, but if you try to use rotary agitation, the film will be prone to walking itself out of the reel. Trying the "kink" tip might help with that.
The clips are the reason I don't use steel reels for 120, even though I would like to have the choice.

Odd, I've never had a single film back out of the center, and I've always used whatever of the 4 openings I could find that had no clip or obstruction. The Honeywell Nikors were always the best on that. And... they used them on the Apollo film. That alone should be all you need to know. Clips are dastardly.

 

[MattKing]

Do you use rotary agitation, or inversion agitation?
I use rotary agitation for the stop, fix and HCA steps, and sometimes for developer.

 

[tkamiya]

I actually had 120 film come off the track and I was only using a regular tank with hand inversions....

 

[Tom1956]

So what if it backs out? The downward curl of the film end protects #12 from sticking to the back of the next spiral down. Never had a problem in 43 years.

 

[fotch]

When you slightly squeeze the film to curve it, to be able to put the end into the clip, it should be close enough to the center as to wind the rest of the way without problem. At least, that is the way it has worked for me without any problems.

 

[jeffreyg]

I cut the corners on an angle just slightly before placing the edge under the clip and as mentioned lightly squeeze to curve the film. Once it is started I place the reel on its edges on the counter top and while maintaining the slight curve push the film while barely touching the reel. If you have the film lined up correctly it will pretty much wind itself. If you don't have it lined up it will meet resistance and you should back off and restart. Test a waste roll with your eyes closed -- after a few practice runs you will find it easy.

http://www.jeffreyglasser.com/

 

[Thomas Bertilsson]

Hewes stainless reels have guides which make it almost impossible to load the film incorrectly.

The mechanism that locks the film in place is spring loaded, and holds against a steel bar that goes across the width of the reel. The force of the spring pushes up against the steel bar from the center of the reel, so to insert film you hold the spring down with one hand while you feed in the film leader with the other. While you feed in the film it's as though it almost inevitably centers itself, but I usually feel with my fingers just to make sure that the film edges are equally distanced to both sides of the reel. When the film is in position you release the spring, which secures it in place.
I loaded one roll and immediately got the hang of it, and that was after using other stainless steel reels for about a year, and I swore every time I used the old reels because they were so difficult to load.

You get what you pay for.

 

[MattKing]

Hewes stainless reels have guides which make it almost impossible to load the film incorrectly.

..... to insert film you hold the spring down with one hand while you feed in the film leader with the other.

Which is why us folks who are loading film with essentially one and one-half hands get frustrated by the clip.

I can't work the clip or feed the film with one of my hands.

 

[Thomas Bertilsson]

Which is why us folks who are loading film with essentially one and one-half hands get frustrated by the clip.

I can't work the clip or feed the film with one of my hands.

Interesting. I'm sorry for not being more inclusive in my ways of thinking.

I don't believe you need two fully functioning hands with Hewes reels, though, because that spring is different (clip is not really correct for Hewes reels as it is a loop of spring steel wire that uses the force of the spring to secure the film in place).

If you use your good hand to feed the film into the reel, the leader is fed between the spring and the steel cross bar. Lay the film leader in place, and with one hand press down on the spring and push the film slightly forward, and release downward pressure on the spring. The only thing you should have to do with your other hand is to hold the reel in place. I will try to do this next time I load the Hewes reels (this weekend), and report back.

http://www.thedarkroom.co.uk/media/...525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/h/e/hewes_120_reel.jpg

See above link. The film is inserted from the left as the reel is oriented in the picture, between the steel cross bar and the spring steel loop. I hope that makes sense. So, all you have to do in order to get the film secured, is to press down on the spring while feeding the film forward.

 

[MattKing]

Thanks for thinking about this Thomas. I'll be interested to learn if you are successful, but would mention that I have tried a number of "one-and-one-half-handed" approaches and have been defeated by the spring clip each time. I usually wins, even when I am working with scrap film, in the light.

It needs a clip that you can latch open, and then release by inserting the film.

 

[Nuff]

Thanks for thinking about this Thomas. I'll be interested to learn if you are successful, but would mention that I have tried a number of "one-and-one-half-handed" approaches and have been defeated by the spring clip each time. I usually wins, even when I am working with scrap film, in the light.

It needs a clip that you can latch open, and then release by inserting the film.

I have LSL reels and even I have not used hewes, I bet they are just as good in quality. They don't use a spring, but clip instead. I put the film in gently feed the film for about half 3/4 of a turn and I know it's being correctly positions and fed. I press the clip in and secure the film.

I don't quite have half a hand, but more of trigger fingers and smashed up wrist in my left hand and it's very easy to operate.

 

[Thomas Bertilsson]

Thanks for thinking about this Thomas. I'll be interested to learn if you are successful, but would mention that I have tried a number of "one-and-one-half-handed" approaches and have been defeated by the spring clip each time. I usually wins, even when I am working with scrap film, in the light.

It needs a clip that you can latch open, and then release by inserting the film.

Matt, I developed some C41 and b&w 120 film last weekend, and wasn't well able to do as I suggested above. I don't know what functionality your arm has, but I WAS able to load it using one hand and my other hand closed to a fist.
Using a changing bag, and holding the film in my right hand I rested the reel on the table surface. I used my closed fist to hold the reel in place and was able to also press down on the spring to allow the film leader into its lock. After that it was easy to 'roll' the reel to catch the film and spool it up. Tearing the film off the backing paper was a different story, however. Maybe scissors would do well here, which would also avoid the potential of static charge releases.

Anyway, I think with some practice it's doable, but it seems one needs a second arm to do it as far as I can tell, even if there is no fully functioning hand present.

How do you load your reels for processing now, Matt?