Winding 120 film on a plastic spool problem

Boris Mirkov · Mar 25, 2015

So I just got out of my darkroom trying to wind a 120 film on a classic Paterson plastic spool and just couldn't manage to do it. The film is Pan F, expired in 2009 (but refregerated), it is pretty curled up so the first problem was to even get it in the leader of the spool. When I managed to do get it on the spool it wouldn't go any further than just a few centimeters in and blocked right there. I lost my temper so much that I got an old Japanese Hansa developing tank that was at my hands reach, the tank has that strip-like spool and I don't even know if I had wound it correctly so naturally I am afraid to develop my film in there. Has anyone had this problem with plastic spools and more importantly, has anyone got a solution to it?

Vaughn · Mar 25, 2015

Check to see if the ball bearings are gunked up -- using a wetting agent in the tank without a good rinse afterwards will do that.

R.Gould · Mar 25, 2015

Take a pencil and run it round the groves of the reel, do it every 3 or 4 films and the slides in like a hot knife though butter, works every time for me and has done so for the last very many years, the pencil lead leaves graphite and sort of dry greases the reel

snapguy · Mar 25, 2015

oh, no

I worked professionally in b&w darkroom for many years but personally, I very much dislike plastic spools. I find them difficult to load.

Hatchetman · Mar 25, 2015

It is not easy! Make sure you pull the film 1-2 inches past the bearings before trying to ratchet it. Film with a tight curl is very difficult.

Oren Grad · Mar 25, 2015

120 can be a bit tricky in the Paterson reels.

Hatchetman said:
Make sure you pull the film 1-2 inches past the bearings before trying to ratchet it.

I agree with this suggestion - usually it helps. Also, if you're still having trouble after a bit of practice, there's a Samigon reel that fits the Paterson tanks that is a little bit easier to thread with 120:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/122989-REG/Samigon_ESA325_Multi_Format_Autofeed_Reel.html

markbarendt · Mar 25, 2015

Plastic reels are tougher.

I do a couple things.

1- clip the leading corners with scissors at an angle.
2- bend back the leading end at about a 1/4", 1/2", 3/4", 1" to take out the curl.
3- make sure the reels are clean and dry

OptiKen · Mar 25, 2015

I use plastic patterson spools and the only problems with loading are humidity (I wear white cotton inspection gloves and humidity is no longer a problem at all.) and old film that is wound super tight and immediately returns to form when you unspool it.

For the tight ones, I will completely unwind the film in my changing bag, roll the end (actually the beginning of the spool - the part that gets exposed first at the end of the roll) back on itself loosely for a couple of turns, then load it in the reel. It also helps to cut a little 45 degree angle off the sides of the end you will load first. it feeds a lot better with the cuts.

cliveh · Mar 25, 2015

If you have a problem, try loading from the other end of the film.

mwdake · Mar 25, 2015

Here's a trick you can try to help get the film started on the reel...

Cut a piece of the film box to be the same width as 120 film and about 2 or 3 inches long.

Before you go in the darkroom slide this piece of card along the reel tracks into the beginning of the reel but not past the little ball bearings. Now when in the darkroom take your film and slide it along the card until it is past the ball bearings and pull in a bit more then remove the card and load in the normal way. You see the card acts like a guide and makes those springy films easier to get started.

I most often reverse curl the first 1/2 inch or so of my film before loading to help with the springiness.

bdial · Mar 25, 2015

cliveh said:
If you have a problem, try loading from the other end of the film.

This
Working from the taped end (with the tape on left on the film) can help a little as it gives you something safe to pull and makes the end of the film a little stiffer.
For stainless reels, the tape helps hold the film in the little clip.

Moopheus · Mar 25, 2015

120 can be uncooperative no matter what. I use a lot of it because I like my MF cameras so much, but I do not like loading it. I've started to get the hang of my Hewes reels (when it come to steel reels, for me, it is Hewes or nothing).

Vaughn · Mar 25, 2015

I find that most 120 SS reels are pretty good -- unlike 35mm. But Hewes are best. Don't like plastic

Sirius Glass · Mar 25, 2015

I too found that the loading problems with 120 film stopped when I switched to Hewes reels.

gone · Mar 25, 2015

Lots of good tips here. I find that if I clip the edges off at a 45 degree angle, and force the film back against the curl (the first inch or two) for a minute or so, it will load fine. It's one of those things where the more you do it, the less you think about it, and it works well. If you don't do it for a while it is hard to get it going again.

GRHazelton · Mar 25, 2015

While we're talking about Paterson reels, I've found that running the reels through a dishwasher helps a little.

Now. My Paterson leaks like a sieve on inversion for agitation. I can't find the spindle, and I feel inversion is a better method anyhow. (or so I tell myself!) And it can be very difficult to screw on the lid! This is NO FUN in the dark after struggling to load the d*** reels! Mention was made of using graphite from a pencil on the reels, how about on the threads of the lid? Or, silicone grease, intended for swimming pool O-rings? Just a tiny dab.

Ronald Moravec · Mar 26, 2015

Keep Wetting agents and Color stabilizer away from plastic reels. It will not come off and gets sticky. When you buy used, you do not know history.

Above are applied to hanging film with spray or squirt bottle.

Sometimes it helps to cut the corners of film to ease the film through.

I have gone back to SS.

wombat2go · Mar 26, 2015

I have struggled with getting 120 film started on the spirals.
I do batches every 3 months and it is the first roll that is most likely to fail.

I just purchased a Samigon ESA325 which not only has the wide tabs, it is also more accurately parallel than my old gray spirals. I have not tried it yet, but I expect it will be better.

I found that Fuji film is a little bit stiffer and easier than Kodak.
I do not like to start with the other end ( with the tape) because of risk of scratches.

So I use a paper stapler to put a staple crossways on the end of the film. That adds some stiffening and make it easier to drag the film through the balls. It is easy to add the staple in the dark.

I always dry the spirals and run a pencil along the tracks before use.

Happy loading!!

CropDusterMan · Mar 26, 2015

I have the plastic Jobo reels which I use for 35mm and 120...I too get issues from time to time.
As mentioned above, be sure the reels are clean-rinse well after photoflo.
The pencil trick sounds cool! I've loaded a ton of these
and still often get a snag about 1/2 way through loading...I simply pull the film back out about an inch,
then continue. It often takes 2 or three of these back pulls before it'll continue on OK. Trick is to be
patient...play some music...I recommend the title song to the original Casino Royale...gotta love
Bert Bacharach. It's impossible to get mad when hearing this song.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBLeACT_KBQ

R.Gould · Mar 26, 2015

If the film gets stuck give the reel a shard tap on one side, works 99% of the time
Richard

M Carter · Mar 26, 2015

And, if the OP is new to this... sacrifice a roll of film and practice in the daylight.

If things go terribly wrong and you need to take a break or inspect the reel, you can always pop the rolled film in the tank, make sure the bottom siphon-spool thing is in there for light blocking, and close it up, take a breath, have a cocktail, etc...

I also find a dark room is easier than a changing bag - if you have a closet inside a bedroom, check it for light tightness with both doors closed, lights off, etc. Just seems less stressful.

Just curious - I love Hewes reels for 35, the little tabs that lock the sprocket holes are genius - how does a Hewes work for 120 film?

M Carter · Mar 26, 2015

BTW, Omega makes a large-tab reel that's less $$ than the Samigon...

RalphLambrecht · Mar 26, 2015

Boris Mirkov said:
So I just got out of my darkroom trying to wind a 120 film on a classic Paterson plastic spool and just couldn't manage to do it. The film is Pan F, expired in 2009 (but refregerated), it is pretty curled up so the first problem was to even get it in the leader of the spool. When I managed to do get it on the spool it wouldn't go any further than just a few centimeters in and blocked right there. I lost my temper so much that I got an old Japanese Hansa developing tank that was at my hands reach, the tank has that strip-like spool and I don't even know if I had wound it correctly so naturally I am afraid to develop my film in there. Has anyone had this problem with plastic spools and more importantly, has anyone got a solution to it?

if both, film and spool are truly dry, then there is no issue.

StephenT · Mar 26, 2015

Ordered one of those Omegas today.

The cardboard trick works pretty well - when I don't knock it out of the reel in the dark! Hopefully the big tabs on the Omega will help - I'll know in a few days and will report back.

ozphoto · Mar 26, 2015

bdial said:
This…
Working from the taped end (with the tape on left on the film) can help a little as it gives you something safe to pull and makes the end of the film a little stiffer. . . . . . .

I do this as well - the slight extra thickness with the tape seems to help and pushing it just past the ballbearings (I usually pull through just past the tape) 9/10 gets me started with stubborn film.

If I start to *really* have problems, I put the film in the tank put on the lid (including the cap!) and take 10 mins to regroup. When I get back to it after a bit of a break, it amazingly seems to work out perfectly!

Winding 120 film on a plastic spool problem

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