Will Tray RA-4 printing sacrifice quality of a print compared to a print processing machine?

[RPC]

Have you tried 3 minutes? I ask because at higher temperature it seems like, once it's done, it's done. Leaving it to develop longer has no effect. I know with the old Polaroid professional, peel apart films, extending development at room temperature didn't seem to matter.

I guess I'm asking is timing critical at 68F?

I remember trying different times in the past with no significant change, but for whatever reason I decided two minutes was optimum. YMMV.

OTTOMH I would think any change per time at colder temperatures would be less than at higher temperatures.

 

[mshchem]

I remember trying different times in the past with no significant change, but for whatever reason I decided two minutes was optimum. YMMV.

OTTOMH I would think any change per time at colder temperatures would be less than at higher temperatures.

If my brain serves me well, it seems like 2 minutes is what I've heard for room temperature development. Some where I've got original Ektachrome processing kit instructions for 68°F, not too long after that it moved to 75°F. I remember when I was in 9th grade processing my first Ektachrome in E3 and E4. I would need to look at the temperature. Emulsion was so soft on color film you could scrape it off with your fingernail.
RA4 is brilliant.

 

[wyofilm]

If my brain serves me well, it seems like 2 minutes is what I've heard for room temperature development. Some where I've got original Ektachrome processing kit instructions for 68°F, not too long after that it moved to 75°F. I remember when I was in 9th grade processing my first Ektachrome in E3 and E4. I would need to look at the temperature. Emulsion was so soft on color film you could scrape it off with your fingernail.
RA4 is brilliant.

The instructions for the kits I use (Arista?) call for 3:20 for 75°F. That has worked for me. Caveat: I am new to RA4, so take what I say with a grain of salt.

 

[RPC]

The Kodak RA-RT I use is actually a replenisher. It is not designed to be used as a developer (without adding water and starter) and Kodak does not promote it as such, but despite that, it works. Its extra activity may make its short times at low temperatures possible. I first saw Photo Engineer (as Rowland Mowery) endorsing it on Photo.net in 2004. I believe he wrote (as far as he knew) he was the first to discover it worked well as a room-temperature developer.

 

[mshchem]

Yes, I have starter for RA-4 developer. I would need to go downstairs and look. But the replenisher I use, same as what you have makes 10 L of replenisher. To make 1 liter of as the lab folks call it "tank solution" what I would call working solution developer, you take something like 780mL of the 10L of replenisher, add 25-30 mL of starter, top off with water to make a liter.
I recall getting 12 Liters of working solution from the developer replenisher 10L bottle. At 100 F with my antique Kodak 11 and 16k Rapid Color Processors that's 45 seconds developer, 45 seconds bleach fix. I use regular SB-1 stop bath in between. I wash after the bleach fix for minimum of 90 seconds, which on these machines is, way more than plenty, use an Ilfospeed dryer, takes about 10 sec to dry an 8x10. These dryers have radiant quartz heating elements, if you leave them on for more than 5 minutes you will be plenty warm. Amazing gloss, heats the gelatin so it just about melts. In fact you know it's too hot if your luster or matte paper comes out glossy.

 

[RPC]

To be clear, I do not add water and starter for room-temperature tray use, but use straight replenisher.

However, when used at high temperatures, it is probably a good idea to add the water/starter if you want in-spec results.

 

[mshchem]

To be clear, I do not add water and starter for room-temperature tray use, but use straight replenisher.

However, when used at high temperatures, it is probably a good idea to add the water/starter if you want in-spec results.

I've used the straight replenisher. If you look at the process control sheets for big processing labs in the Z manual for Ektacolor processing it's enough to make your head spin.
People need not worry so much. Try color printing. Change 1 thing at a time. It's rarely a problem with chemistry as long as you don't cross contaminate.

It's getting just the right filtration. Once you get it worked out, stick with one film and one paper it's easy

 

[mshchem]

The instructions for the kits I use (Arista?) call for 3:20 for 75°F. That has worked for me. Caveat: I am new to RA4, so take what I say with a grain of salt.

Stick with it. A proper RA4 print made optically rather than laid down with a minilab LED printer can look quite different. Even better are medium and large format contact prints, better than the best scanner

 

[koraks]

From my experiments RA-4 doesn't develop to completion.

It does, but that doesn't mean development can/should be extended infinitely. Like with any other silver-based image forming material, at some point, non-exposed halide will develop (i.e., it will fog). There's some margin for error and indeed, in my printing, I don't see differences if I (mistakenly) add, say, 10 seconds on top of the usual development time, but I wouldn't extend the time unnecessarily.

Or it might be more correct that it can be always bleached too much and that's where variance comes from.

Bleaching should go to completion. That's a hard and fast rule. If additional bleaching time gives you different results, your bleach time is not correct or your chemistry is compromised.

Even with B&W it can be developed to completion or not.

Of course. But that doesn't mean it's supposed to NOT be developed to completion.

However I'm positive someone knowledgeable, and I'm pretty sure it was Photo Engineer, said that RA bleaches to completion.

That's correct. He also said that RA4 development goes to completion along the lines I explained at the top of this post. Search back in his posts on RA4 development. Given that he was pretty knowledgeable about RA4 materials and processing (to put it mildly) and he did RA4 at room temperature in trays, I've always felt quite confident about adopting this approach myself. I don't regret it.

 

[Wayne]

That's correct. He also said that RA4 development goes to completion along the lines I explained at the top of this post. Search back in his posts on RA4 development. Given that he was pretty knowledgeable about RA4 materials and processing (to put it mildly) and he did RA4 at room temperature in trays, I've always felt quite confident about adopting this approach myself. I don't regret it.

I keep my developer tray at a pretty steady temp with an aquarium heater, and I don't vary development time by more than a few seconds. I put 75+ degree water in my blix tempering bath, and I just let it drift down and replace it with warm water now and then as needed. So the blix might vary from 70-75 during a session but it makes no difference. I might leave a print in it for extra time too and it makes no difference.

 

[wyofilm]

Stick with it.

Don't worry. I keep heading deeper into the rabbit hole. Just picked up a jobo processing cylinder for up to 16x20. The Heath canoe for that size worked, but the cylinders are pretty convenient. Now if I can only find a 20x24.

 

[mshchem]

Don't worry. I keep heading deeper into the rabbit hole. Just picked up a jobo processing cylinder for up to 16x20. The Heath canoe for that size worked, but the cylinders are pretty convenient. Now if I can only find a 20x24.

Keep your eyes open for a 20 x 24 cylinder that came with a water bath. Original name was Doran Dev-Tec, company was a spin off of Arkay original family. These were sold under various names including Adorama, Premier. I had a couple at one time, there's an optional immersion heater for the bath. You could even rig up a motor to spin the drum.
They work great, they were cheap when new something like 75 dollars for the tube and tub. The heater was over 100 dollars. Didn't need it with RA4

 

[wyofilm]

Keep your eyes open for a 20 x 24 cylinder that came with a water bath. Original name was Doran Dev-Tec, company was a spin off of Arkay original family. These were sold under various names including Adorama, Premier. I had a couple at one time, there's an optional immersion heater for the bath. You could even rig up a motor to spin the drum.
They work great, they were cheap when new something like 75 dollars for the tube and tub. The heater was over 100 dollars. Didn't need it with RA4

Thanks for the help!

 

[DREW WILEY]

Dev Tech was the dirt cheap drum option. Ironically, it was one of the best in actual usage.