Will Ilford Sheet Film ever get edge markings?

StoneNYC · Jan 8, 2014

jnanian said:
notch codes arent that hard to figure out if need be .. im glad they dont have text on the film .. hate that ..
almost as much as the number wheel on my graphmatic ,, thats why the fiirst thing when i got one was unscew the holder and remove the wheel.
the notch codes are bad enough a number wheel in the negative is even worse

Do you still have that wheel? I need 2 more

StoneNYC · Jan 8, 2014

Randy Moe said:
No thanks, and Stone you need to try printing.

I usually figure out the film code on used holders containing film, which happens all the time!

Well as I said it's more about helping ilford and making a "cool" image for posting online then for identification, and I'm getting better at remembering the codes. But to a novice it's a deterrent, and forget that old mentality of "if you can't make it, don't bother" with that attitude not enough new blood will make it to film.

StoneNYC · Jan 8, 2014

Michael R 1974 said:
I don't think this would work, especially for snobs like me who still stretch their own canvases.

Here's a thought, Stone: If you buy some Ilford printing paper you get stickers with it. You can put those stickers on your negatives.

Oh goodie, stickers! Can I stick them on the pictures when I do a good job?!! Oh I hope I earn a sticker this week!!!

removed account4 · Jan 8, 2014

StoneNYC said:
Do you still have that wheel? I need 2 more

tin snips

Sal Santamaura · Jan 8, 2014

StoneNYC said:
Old school thinking...

Like shooting with film in 2014? Or, even more "old school," shooting large format in 2014?

Thank you. I take that as a high compliment. Most "new" things are fads that will fade rather quickly. Things that have stood the test of time are the few which didn't fade. Running a "tight ship" business the way HARMAN does, quite successfully, is one of those "old school" things.

StoneNYC said:
...perpetual and relatively free advertising is never a waste of money...

Nobody except the person that bought the film would see edge printing. Anyone wanting to promote the Ilford brand on Facebook, Instagram, etc. can easily paste in a logo as pseudo edge printing. I'll wager that HARMAN wouldn't object. In any case, what one sees on a monitor has no chance of conveying the superiority of silver halide, so those who print (silver or alternative processes) are the only ones who might be able to convert the unwashed. They should "win."

StoneNYC · Jan 8, 2014

Sal Santamaura said:
Like shooting with film in 2014? Or, even more "old school," shooting large format in 2014?

Thank you. I take that as a high compliment. Most "new" things are fads that will fade rather quickly. Things that have stood the test of time are the few which didn't fade. Running a "tight ship" business the way HARMAN does, quite successfully, is one of those "old school" things.

Nobody except the person that bought the film would see edge printing. Anyone wanting to promote the Ilford brand on Facebook, Instagram, etc. can easily paste in a logo as pseudo edge printing. I'll wager that HARMAN wouldn't object. In any case, what one sees on a monitor has no chance of conveying the superiority of silver halide, so those who print (silver or alternative processes) are the only ones who might be able to convert the unwashed. They should "win."

Haha!

I'm old school too, in fact bad enough, that even though I use a hybrid process (scanning) that I have no idea how to add a logo onto it in PS. I don't even use PS, though I was convinced by a fellow photographer who's in school now that I HAD to have it... It's been about a year + and only used it once to remove spots, until I discovered I could do that in Adobe Lightroom (a dummies version of photoshop that acts more like a darkroom tool).

Aron · Jan 8, 2014

Some people prefer lenses that give swirly out of focus areas, others like total neutral, clean rendition or lenses that have some character that can be tamed on wish.

It often bothers me when I see an artwork with the bold FABRIANO logo pressed in the paper. While it might look cool at first, after some time these markings could get tiring, just like the edges of many alt-process work that show the brushstrokes.

I like to print 6x6 negatives full-frame and I'm OK with the edge markings, but I never felt a special attachment towards them.

I think printing allows us strong enough self-expression that there is no need for edge-printing.

For many, LF is a good part about contact printing, and I'm happier if my film carries no pre-exposed markings. The behaviour of materials depends so much on the way we treat them anyway, the film's type alone carries only partial (at best) information.

BradS · Jan 8, 2014

Stone, if I understand correctly, you're asserting that Ilford should put edge markings on sheet film because it would be free advertising for them on instagram (and other visually oriented social networking places on the www)?

Is this accurate?

This implies that Kodak and Fuji are tons of free advertising....from all those folks who post full frame film scans on the (there was a url link here which no longer exists) wait...how many folks post full frame as a proportion of all folks posting film scans or print scans ? I see lots and lots of 35mm film scans of flickr...and almost none show the sprocket holes (even though, I guess that's cool). Point is, even if there were edge markings, it would not really make any significant difference from an advertising and marketing point of view. (besides, why not add tags ? See my flickr stream for examples)

Why is it our (the customers') responsibility to also run a marketing campaign for our film stock suppliers? Shouldn't Kodak and Ilford do their own marketing?

While I agree that film manufactures (all of them) are missing opportunities to market film and traditional materials to the next generation of film users, I really do not agree that we, the customers, should fill that role. And, I completely disagree with the idea that edge markings are an effective means of advertising.

StoneNYC · Jan 8, 2014

BradS said:
Stone, if I understand correctly, you're asserting that Ilford should put edge markings on sheet film because it would be free advertising for them on instagram (and other visually oriented social networking places on the www)?

Is this accurate?

This implies that Kodak and Fuji are tons of free advertising....from all those folks who post full frame film scans on the (there was a url link here which no longer exists) wait...how many folks post full frame as a proportion of all folks posting film scans or print scans ? I see lots and lots of 35mm film scans of flickr...and almost none show the sprocket holes (even though, I guess that's cool). Point is, even if there were edge markings, it would not really make any significant difference from an advertising and marketing point of view. (besides, why not add tags ? See my flickr stream for examples)

Why is it our (the customers') responsibility to also run a marketing campaign for our film stock suppliers? Shouldn't Kodak and Ilford do their own marketing?

While I agree that film manufactures (all of them) are missing opportunities to market film and traditional materials to the next generation of film users, I really do not agree that we, the customers, should fill that role. And, I completely disagree with the idea that edge markings are an effective means of advertising.

It's not that I think it's the only reason, I still think it's easier for me when I flip through my pages I can just see "Fuji Acros100" and "Kodak TMY-2" it's just easier, and when the two major players do it, and you don't, many would confuse that for lesser quality, or lesser capability, like FOMA100 and FP4+ and HP5+ look identical side by side in my print file pages and if I show others, all they see is Fuji and Kodak.

I'm also not saying Instagram is the only game in town, just that it's another outlet. It's kind of like, by the time you know about it, it's old news, like universities who think that writing a blog will get them anywhere, even twitter is "old news" the game is changing and the pace is faster, and you need any trick you can find to catch someone's eye long enough to slow them down a little.

Anyway the post is mute, the point is made, no markings is more important for "options" than it is for easy identification. But maybe instead of a notch code, they should cut pit a a capital I for ilford and then FP4+ falling off the edge, would be mostly clear, but easier than a bunch of cut out semi-circles.

Vaughn · Jan 8, 2014

Another resounding "I hope they never do!!!!!!!" I have been tempted to scrap off the Fuji Acros markings on my sheet film

BradS · Jan 8, 2014

Stone, someday...over beers, maybe you can explain this need/desire to identify the film used while viewing the image. Does it really matter, when looking at a print, if it was TMY or FP4+ in the camera?

Toffle · Jan 8, 2014

StoneNYC said:
Anyway the post is mute, the point is made, no markings is more important for "options" than it is for easy identification. But maybe instead of a notch code, they should cut pit a a capital I for ilford and then FP4+ falling off the edge, would be mostly clear, but easier than a bunch of cut out semi-circles.

Jeez, it's not "mute", it's "moo".

Joey: If he doesn't like you, then this is all just a moo point.
Rachel: Huh. A moo point?
Joey: Yeah, it's like a cow's opinion, you know, it just doesn't matter. It's "moo".

I hope that helps.

Tom

Mark_S · Jan 8, 2014

No problem for those who post online - just scan the negative and add the edge text with photosh**

They do that with digital all the time - adding sprocket holes in post processing .

StoneNYC said:
Well as I said it's more about helping ilford and making a "cool" image for posting online then for identification, and I'm getting better at remembering the codes. But to a novice it's a deterrent, and forget that old mentality of "if you can't make it, don't bother" with that attitude not enough new blood will make it to film.

StoneNYC · Jan 8, 2014

Mark_S said:
No problem for those who post online - just scan the negative and add the edge text with photosh**

They do that with digital all the time - adding sprocket holes in post processing .

I can't add text, what makes you think I could add something advanced like sprocket holes... Lol

I don't even understand the whole "layers" thing...

StoneNYC · Jan 8, 2014

Michael R 1974 said:
Ha. He's got quite a few things to explain over beers.

As long as it doesn't start or end with "taking it outside" I'm more than happy to join, but would prefer a nice red wine... Hah

StoneNYC · Jan 8, 2014

BradS said:
Stone, someday...over beers, maybe you can explain this need/desire to identify the film used while viewing the image. Does it really matter, when looking at a print, if it was TMY or FP4+ in the camera?

I think it has to do with my process, since I don't print, to me the type of film is really important as I notice differences between them in my scans.

In fact, some film that scans well, doesn't print as well, and some film that prints well, scans horribly. So I've read from people who do both...

Maybe when I start printing I'll start asking about what grade things were done on or something, hopefully someday I'll get past it.

Still would like to get ilford on the edge, I like them and want to show younger "folk" the English ways... Haha

BrianShaw · Jan 8, 2014

Fine-tip Sharpie. Add whatever edge marking you'd like.

AgX · Jan 8, 2014

StoneNYC said:
Do you still have that [number exposing] wheel? I need 2 more

Alternative you can saw/mill proprietory marks in the lower edge of the filmholder.
Less versatile than a wheel, but the markings will be off the image field.

StoneNYC · Jan 8, 2014

AgX said:
Alternative you can saw/mill proprietóry marks in the lower edge of the filmholder.
Less versatile than a whell, but the markings will off the image field.

It's about identifying which sheet was which number, I keep a log, but don't tray process so keeping track of which sheet is which out of the 6 is easier if the film is imprinted with the darn number.

Not just which holder it came from.

Unless I'm missing your explanation.

Can they be "changed out"? I have a BAD grafmatic but with a good wheel.

removed account4 · Jan 8, 2014

stone. just make an embosser that says whatever it is you want it to say.
ypu can emboss your film to have your name/logo or your film type.
stationary stores make them ... or make an overlay and print or scan with it over/ under
your film.. if the manufacturers dont make the edge name
make your own .. a sharpie or pencil will work too ..
besides there are thousands of people who use fake edge markings and notchcodes on their scans
hate to say this but it tends to get trite/pathetic fast seeing "ilford fp4 and fake notchcodes on a color image ...

AgX · Jan 8, 2014

Stone, you are perfecrtly right.
As I said with that number wheel you are flexible. With those markings at the holder edge you only can relate the film to that very holder. Though you can give that holder a number too. And that holder edge marking can be a number too. Though hardly a arabic figure.

StoneNYC · Jan 8, 2014

jnanian said:
stone. just make an embosser that says whatever it is you want it to say.
ypu can emboss your film to have your name/logo or your film type.
stationary stores make them ... or make an overlay and print or scan with it over/ under
your film.. if the manufacturers dont make the edge name
make your own .. a sharpie or pencil will work too ..
besides there are thousands of people who use fake edge markings and notchcodes on their scans
hate to say this but it tends to get trite/pathetic fast seeing "ilford fp4 and fake notchcodes on a color image ...

Yes I agree with the last part especially, that's why I want REAL ones haha

removed account4 · Jan 8, 2014

StoneNYC said:
Yes I agree with the last part especially, that's why I want REAL ones haha

real unreal , same thing since the unreal has become real.
just make your own, and your own reality ...it just takes a little imagination

StoneNYC · Jan 8, 2014

jnanian said:
real unreal , same thing since the unreal has become real.
just make your own, and your own reality ...it just takes a little imagination

Are we in the matrix or are we in inception?...

removed account4 · Jan 8, 2014

StoneNYC said:
Are we in the matrix or are we in inception?...

does it matter?

just do as you wish and dont worry about it

Will Ilford Sheet Film ever get edge markings?

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