Will analog flash hurt digital camera?

[markthew]

Just picked up a Sunpak 422D flash for Nikon in the course of my older camera collecting. I'd like to use it with my Nikon D90. I've heard that the voltage differences may fry the D90. Anyone know the answer to this?

 

[pellicle]

if you want a definitive answer toddle down to the local electronics shop and pick up a basic volt meter. Turn on the flash and let it charge ready for a paf

now, turn on your volt meter, put it to measure DC and put one probe on the center pin and the other on the bit that rubs against the hot shoe edge as it goes onto the shoe

if its more than 12 V its dicey ... 24V is around, but the common value for safe units is 12v

without performing this, I'd venture yes, as its a thyristor flash that's a little more modern.

personally I only use Metz and I know they publish which ones are safe and which are not.

see if sunpak have any data ... but a meter should cost you about $5 ... and they're handy to have around the house too

 

[donbga]

if you want a definitive answer toddle down to the local electronics shop and pick up a basic volt meter. Turn on the flash and let it charge ready for a paf

now, turn on your volt meter, put it to measure DC and put one probe on the center pin and the other on the bit that rubs against the hot shoe edge as it goes onto the shoe

if its more than 12 V its dicey ... 24V is around, but the common value for safe units is 12v

without performing this, I'd venture yes, as its a thyristor flash that's a little more modern.

personally I only use Metz and I know they publish which ones are safe and which are not.

see if sunpak have any data ... but a meter should cost you about $5 ... and they're handy to have around the house too

Use the voltages that are specified by the camera manufacturer as being safe not the flash manufacterer. Other wise Chris's post is correct.

Also sont forget that Wein makes a safe flash attachement that allows many legacy flashes with high trigger voltages functional with modern DSLRs with low voltage tolerances.

Some modern DSLRs can handle high flash trigger voltages, but look before you leap to be on the safe side.

Don

 

[mrred]

Something to note. That flash has an adapter module to mate the auto features of the host camera. If you baught it with the nikon version, it will not work with your D90. The D90 uses a newer communication protocol. If it is a "standard shoe", you are good to go.

edit: Other than the D100, all Nikon digitals use a differen (new) flash protocol. This is an important point to note when shopping for used flash gear. The new nikon flashes will do all their cameras. Sometimes you don't really save.

 

[Grinsha]

I have used a flash with a 180v sync (vivtar 283) many times on my Nikon D40.
It should say in your manual how many volts it will take.
My d40 is supposed to take up to 250v sync.

Here is a page with strobe sync voltages.
http://www.botzilla.com/photo/strobeVolts.html

 

[pellicle]

I have used a flash with a 180v sync (vivtar 283) many times on my Nikon D40.
It should say in your manual how many volts it will take.
My d40 is supposed to take up to 250v sync.

I was going to add this bit but deleted it, I'll add it now.

Many SLR cameras use switches which are physically part of the shutter blades to do the switching. The higher the amperage the more the pitting that will occur to the surface of the switch (they are just two pieces of metal usually copper. Pick up any old circuit board to get an idea of how thin this may be). With any switch there is some "sparking" occur as the two metal parts come into contact. The higher the voltage the more likely and the higher the amperage the deeper the pitting (think mini-arc welder)

Older flashes essentially use the PC connector to complete the circuit and discharge a capacitor through the (often Xenon) strobe. This will result in high voltages and (importantly) high amperages. This will eventually pit the surface of the switch making it inoperable. While many camera shutters and internal circuits will cope with this it will (if done hundreds or thousands of times) eventually render the switch section non functional. It will begin by being erratic in operation often enough.

That said, some cameras have a solid state switch (transistor) which I understood that was what the D40 uses. These do not suffer the same physical switching arcing damage (but have their own issues), so are a much safer operation choice when switching stuff like this.

Lots of the new cameras (most of which have PC sockets) are quite tolerant to voltages up to 250

what I do however is to use a wireless strobe trigger (which I bought form eBay) on the base of the flash, and put the trigger unit on the flash ... I seldom want on camera flash anyway ... but YMMV

 

[Vaughn]

Hello,

We have a Speedtron Brown Line system, model D1604 in out university lighting studio.

From the Specs in the manual:
The trigger voltage is 70V
The trigger current is 43 micro-amps.

Are there any digital cameras that can not handle that?

 

[indigo]

I didn't know that they have analog and digital flashes.

 

[Vaughn]

I didn't know that they have analog and digital flashes.

As far as I know, they don't. I am not really up-to-speed with these things...I know just enough to be wary.

The voltage (AFAIK, used for communication between the strobe unit and the camera) of some flash units can be too high for some digital cameras and can cause arching across the circuit boards, or something like that. But there has been some improvement in digital cameras to strengthen them to handle the higher voltage of the the older flash units. I just checked out the Nikon D300 (randomly selecting it) and it is rated up to 250V -- much higher than I expected. That particular camera should be fine.

A lot of digital camera below the pro-grade (just like film cameras) do not even have a PC connector (the 'PC' does not refer to personal computers nor political correctness). With film cameras one can use a PC adapter from the hot shoe to the flash unit -- this might not be possible with digital cameras since if they do not have a PC connector, they are probably not designed for use with the high-power Normans, Speedotrons, etc.

I do not want students to use the Speedotrons and have their digital cameras fried, if at all possible. My original question is probably too general...just too many types of digital cameras out there.

 

[Bill Burk]

I suppose there might be digital flashes, but you might think of the general discussion here being "analog-era" flashes...

I run a Vivitar 283 through a Wein adapter... using the Vivitar to fire a slave eye connected to an ancient studio flash (that I use for copy shots of prints). I appreciate that I have an optical link, that reduces the risk of frying the electronics.

The Wein unit gives a little peace of mind, and I appreciate having that gadget even when shooting analog equipment, because it may postpone a trip to the repair shop.

 

[CGW]

As far as I know, they don't. I am not really up-to-speed with these things...I know just enough to be wary.

The voltage (AFAIK, used for communication between the strobe unit and the camera) of some flash units can be too high for some digital cameras and can cause arching across the circuit boards, or something like that. But there has been some improvement in digital cameras to strengthen them to handle the higher voltage of the the older flash units. I just checked out the Nikon D300 (randomly selecting it) and it is rated up to 250V -- much higher than I expected. That particular camera should be fine.

A lot of digital camera below the pro-grade (just like film cameras) do not even have a PC connector (the 'PC' does not refer to personal computers nor political correctness). With film cameras one can use a PC adapter from the hot shoe to the flash unit -- this might not be possible with digital cameras since if they do not have a PC connector, they are probably not designed for use with the high-power Normans, Speedotrons, etc.

I do not want students to use the Speedotrons and have their digital cameras fried, if at all possible. My original question is probably too general...just too many types of digital cameras out there.

The old safeguard was/is the Wein Safe-Sych that fits between the camera's hot shoe and the flash unit. But for its $50 cost, you can get basic radio triggers/receivers that solve several problems at one swipe.

Nikon has the AS-15 for non-PC terminal cameras. There are also generic PC adapters that slip onto an camera's flash shoe. Still, I think radio triggers make studio shooting easier by solving any hi-voltage issues and by eliminating mobility-limiting/accident-causing synch cords.

 

[Pioneer]

I agree. I have a couple old Safe-Synchs (or did, not even sure where they are now) but since I bought the radio triggers I don't even think of them. I picked up a couple of tripod socket mounted flash brackets that move my electronic flash units out to the side. This solves a lot of problems including red eye and macro flash just to name a couple. I use older Vivitar units that allow various flash power settings and these seem to work out best.

 

[Vaughn]

Thanks for the great info! I will forward this on to the professor dealing with the purchase of new studio equipment!

Vaughn

 

[indigo]

The 422D isn't worth a lot of money nowaday, $10 perhaps. But I think it's ok to use with the digital camera but to be sure you must make the voltage measurement with a good volt meter first. If you don't want to do this or afraid that it is not safe to use any way then don't use it. Buying a safe sync to use it is a waste of money as the safe sync cost many times the value of the flash.
Modern camera, film or digital, use solid state switching device in their flash sync circuit. Solid state devices do not cause an arc and last much longer than a simple dry contact switch. The down side of these devices that they only work well within a certain voltage range. You can make it to work with very high voltage but then it won't work reliably with lower voltage. A device that works well with lower voltage would burn out with high voltage. A circuit like those in Nikon cameras which normally has to work well with voltage around 6V or even less and is capable to handle 250V is really having quite a wide voltage range. I don't expect much improvement in this respect in the future. Besides there isn't really any need for it. Old flashes were built with high voltage sync circuit because it's simple and caused no problem with cameras of those times. Today to make a flash sync circuit with low voltage need just a tiny bit more of circuitry and I think all new flashes will be built that way even with AC studio strobes. So there is no need to make camera sync circuit handle high voltage in the future. What we really need is an ISO Standard for flash sync circuitry and voltages.

 

[CGW]

The 422D isn't worth a lot of money nowaday, $10 perhaps. But I think it's ok to use with the digital camera but to be sure you must make the voltage measurement with a good volt meter first. If you don't want to do this or afraid that it is not safe to use any way then don't use it. Buying a safe sync to use it is a waste of money as the safe sync cost many times the value of the flash.
Modern camera, film or digital, use solid state switching device in their flash sync circuit. Solid state devices do not cause an arc and last much longer than a simple dry contact switch. The down side of these devices that they only work well within a certain voltage range. You can make it to work with very high voltage but then it won't work reliably with lower voltage. A device that works well with lower voltage would burn out with high voltage. A circuit like those in Nikon cameras which normally has to work well with voltage around 6V or even less and is capable to handle 250V is really having quite a wide voltage range. I don't expect much improvement in this respect in the future. Besides there isn't really any need for it. Old flashes were built with high voltage sync circuit because it's simple and caused no problem with cameras of those times. Today to make a flash sync circuit with low voltage need just a tiny bit more of circuitry and I think all new flashes will be built that way even with AC studio strobes. So there is no need to make camera sync circuit handle high voltage in the future. What we really need is an ISO Standard for flash sync circuitry and voltages.

As noted above, just look here for voltages: Photo Strobe Trigger Voltages

Radio triggers/receivers solve many problems/concerns discussed here for less. Thankfully, most old flashes that could cause damage are dead.

 

[EASmithV]

try using a wein safe sync

 

[removed account4]

trigger voltages vary wildly from flash to flash ...
the safe sync's die after a certain amount of uses from what i understand ...
so get a new one to make sure your camera don't become a paper weight ..
it'll be worth it!
john

 

[David A. Goldfarb]

I usually use a Wein Safe-Sync between electronic cameras (film and digital) and my Norman studio and portable strobes, but I've plugged my Norman portables into the PC contact of my Canon 5D MKII without any problems. It's possible that the PC contact can handle the voltage, but the shoe may not.

 

[SafetyBob]

Late to the party again, but with a Wein Safe-Sych, I have used all the older high voltage flashes with my D60. And that's even as I recall my old potato masher Canon 533G's and 577G's are somewhat low voltage, I don't care......I use a Safe-Sych. I think my Metz 60 CT-1's are safet too, but I simply won't take a chance with an older flash. Again, as I recall, I had to get one if I didn't want to fry anything with my old Vivitar 283......I even use the Safe-sych on my F4S and the F5....I can't afford screwing up this old stuff when it is so simple to have a measure of safety...

Bob E.

 

[RalphLambrecht]

Hello,

We have a Speedtron Brown Line system, model D1604 in out university lighting studio.

From the Specs in the manual:
The trigger voltage is 70V
The trigger current is 43 micro-amps.

Are there any digital cameras that can not handle that?

If I remember it correctly,the ISO standard for cameras requests triggervoltage safety up to 5 Vand specifies a trigger voltage maximum for flashes at 5V.unfortunately, many lasheshave higher trigger voltages and many camerasa lower voltage protection.to be safe, a radio trigger is the onlyanswerto this mismatch.Let's be happythat they are available and inexpensive.

 

[toyotadesigner]

I remember that most modern cameras are fried when you use a flash with higher voltage than 5 V (Nikon, Canon). At least this is in the manual of the D600 and D800.

Maybe this list helps?

Photo Strobe Trigger Voltages

 

[williamkazak]

I remember when I got my first digital body, a Nikon D70. I was keen to use my Vivitar 285 units but the flash exposures varied wildly and I had to therefore get Nikon flash units. The D70 and D70s models had no PC hole. I had to get the Nikon AS adapter for the hot shoe and cord it from there. I still use the Nikon SB800 units. That was a real bummer at the time because I knew how to use the 285's and 283's after years of shooting weddings. They were wonderful for film and I did not need to spend so much as what Nikon units cost.

 

[analoguey]

Nikon camera bodies can handle upto 250v(says so in their manuals). Canon ones can handle till 6v.

 

[CGW]

Film flashes like the old 285 will only work as manual units on Nikon DSLRs. Radio triggers get around the voltage issue. Guesstimate flash exposure or get a flash meter to use any speedlight in manual mode. Nikon flashes like SB 24/25/26/28 can be used easily like studio flashes--that's what the 'Strobist" thing is all about.

 

[RalphLambrecht]

Just picked up a Sunpak 422D flash for Nikon in the course of my older camera collecting. I'd like to use it with my Nikon D90. I've heard that the voltage differences may fry the D90. Anyone know the answer to this?

Yes, you are running a risk.to be safe get a wireless transmitter and receiver.Theyare offered at Amazon for as little as $25 for the kit.