Widelux 1500 - what is like to use?

[Lachlan Young]

I'll keep this simple: I'd like to hear any user experiences with the Widelux 1500, specifically about the following:

• How reliable have you found them to be?
• How difficult/ expensive are they to keep serviced/ running?
• How useful is the focusability of the lens?
• Are they tricky to handhold compared to a Noblex 150?

 

[Sirius Glass]

I have the WideLux F7 and I have had it serviced at Tempe Camera https://www.tempecamera.biz/ They are good. If the camera has sat for a while, exercise the shutter many times so that the lubricants are evenly distributed or you will get banding. Then load the film. Hence I have learned not to leave film in the camera for long time periods. It is one on the few of my cameras which I will make sure I finish the roll when I use it.

The lens is fix focused so there is no focusing. Use a fast enough film for shooting Sunny 16 with the filters you will be using: UV, Yellow or Orange. Film that is too slow means you will be using a shutter speed of 1/15 second, so consider the film speed, the f/stops and shutter speeds before buying film for it.

 

[Lachlan Young]

@Sirius Glass unfortunately it's the medium format Widelux & not the 35mm version I'm trying to get some information about.

 

[Sirius Glass]

@Sirius Glass unfortunately it's the medium format Widelux & not the 35mm version I'm trying to get some information about.

Yes, but both can suffer banding for the same reasons and the same precautions apply.

 

[yurihuta]

• How reliable have you found them to be?

Yes mine has been reliable, although I have not used mine much. I use my Widelux F8 more and have had no issues with it. Both my Widelux cameras were CLA'd by Bob Watkins of Precision Camera Works. I also had a Noblex 150 that stopped working and I sent it to a Widelux technician in British Columbia - but it was not repairable. The Noblex never worked properly and I bought it as a reclamation project.

• How difficult/ expensive are they to keep serviced/ running?

The CLA by Bob Watkins was less than $400 and was performed three years ago (estimate). No issues with it since the CLA.

• How useful is the focusability of the lens?

Better than not having focusing ability. There is a depth of field table somewhere online that I had printed out.

• Are they tricky to handhold compared to a Noblex 150?

It is a big camera and you need to keep your fingers/knuckles out of the frame. Ideally I would get a hand grip that screws into the tripod socket to help with hand holding. I did not shoot much with the Noblex, but the Widelux seemed bigger and was definitely heavier (not a drawback for me when shooting handheld).

 

[europanorama]

everything on W1500 in multiple forums. or mine: www.rotatingpanoramiccameras.tk

1. first series had a lot lot of troubles. npo precision and wrong material-combinations. thats why noblex and widepan 140(w1500 copy) were born.
that was the reason adorama refused to send testshot-because then knew about the problems.
we even had to file down filmm rails on one side since image unsharp.... then the rollers(remove the damned disks), unprecise hole in rollers(one must live with it Panon told.
i have got a replacement cam (after pressing panon-kubota told first to send cam back to Adorama, was 5800 chf very expensive.

Never buy W1500 without proper testing. one does not know from which SN on camn was improved. i can deliver both numbers of bad cams.
there was a JP-seller on ebay expicitely telling about bad working.
I had banding and unsharp zone(Iower or upper image zone(solved by my repairment expert in CH).

2. Dont expect very sharp results below 5m. its an optical problem. noblex solved it.
make what i advised and add additional distance marks. i have made a DOF table. can scan now and someone can destribute, have notes/calculationbs on that sheet which experts for COC will understand. will send handwritten to someone willing to make an excel-sheet and distribute in multiple forums-or someone else can do the latter. i have no experience/time.
bought W1500 in 1990 at adorama. panon replaced it but same bad design. read my forum see link above, also about sunshade. slit cut in lenscap.
lost endless amount of lifetime, same with Horizont/Horizon all in my forum. Horizon S3Pro latest. I am also Roundshot 65/70/220-owner, huge heavy dont buy., also a lot of adventures.
www.auschwitzpanorama.tk

 

[europanorama]

get noblex serviced by Bob. also had first noblex for testing 6 months. had 1/12 sec, made sunshade. uv.filter with tape. like cutting slit into lenscap.
be aware Noblex not suitable for windy condistions, drum could slow down. get newest version only which hasnt prerotation 360 anymore. bob can convert older noblex to full options. all incl. 330 usd.

 

[Lachlan Young]

@europanorama Those comments quite closely reflect much of what I had heard over the years about the issues with the 1500 - my own inclination has long been to go for one of the fixed focus Noblex 150 cameras (I have used one before & made prints up to nearly a metre across - the lens is excellent in my experience), but I wanted to see if there were any significant advantages to the Widelux 1500 & its more purely mechanical design.

 

[europanorama]

Update: more W1500-problems
1. 1/250 is a big problem since drum cannpot accelerate enough at start. overexposure at start. someone told it can be photoshoppeinwandfreied. sam on W1500 copies. Widepan 140 and phenix panflex(the same or similar). W1500 has 122mm image. W140 110mm if i dont err. these 12mm could have been enough start for acceleration. we moved start on W1500 a bit but still not perfect enough. Thats the reasion Horizon 205 PC (110mm image) has onbly 1/60.
1/250, 1/60 and 1/8 limits on W1500 is a very big problem. H 205 PC has 1/60 - 2sec. W140 has 1/2 for slowest.

To work with these 3 times only ND-filters are essential. since not magnetic like on Noblex it a big mess working.
DOF-table must be made-done that.It is important for finefocussing an near distances 10-3m or whatever. 50mm is a long lens.
Had to add additional 1/3 inbetween aperture-scale-markers(white tape with markers added). e.g f16, 16.1, 16.2. f22.
can scan that handwritten table. is there a filesection somewhere in a forum maybe FB. will do in my forum at rotatingpanoramiccameras dot tk if possible also. asp not very soon.
My repairman is a Horizont/Horizon/Widelux 1500-genious. he changed weights of regulator to get slower speeds from 4 sec/1/8 up to 12 sec rotation, 1 1/2 stops slower. 1/3 sec? the other speeds will also slow down. not good for moving subjects. good if one has a second W1500.
i am about to change spirit-level since mine get defective by repairman...also tripod-socket-block must be replaced. front cam-balancer got broken again. cam standing on ground. screws is too tiny.
next i will explain about my strategic mistakes before buying W1500 in 1990 at Adorama NYC.

 

[europanorama]

what went wrong when i decided to buy Widelux 1500 at Adorama?
1. Had the option to buy directly at Panon but Kubota(General Manager/Owner?) didnt reply my Fax. I explicitly wanted to take it to photokina 90.
Forgot the option to test W1500 at Foto Gregor Cologne. i had seen the cam i knew it was for renting but forgot that. Adorama had it advertised over years in popphoto.
But biggest mistake was not contacting/calling up Kornelius Schorle at Pro Photo Connection, Irwine, Ca. after no reply was coming to my fax for his Electropan(pre-Noblex).
Schorle is the Noblex-Inventor. If i had known they would come with Noblex Pro 150 in 1992 i would have waited. Had one for 6 months for testing from a friend. coating is better. one of the cams lenses is shifted up a bit compared to eachother. did a shooting in a bank-entree.
Should also not have bought Roundshot 65/70/220(Panoscope 70-220-conversion from 1987). despite used(rented) it was not cheap only 3000 chf cheaper than new. RS-adventures cost me a fortune. at the end i was developping 70mm color negative films on my own and contact-printed. was timeconsuming and not that difficult.
Should have to invest in Technopan, that was the luxury-version of Horizon 202. with all 8 exposure times like the later S3Pro(i have two). Co-Inventor Rainer K.Lampinen-Panorama-guru Tampere Finland. he also inverted shift-mechanisme on Horizon 205 PC/Pan 120(export model). Also never buy or use Alpa Roto. more limits and problems than W1500. 75mm lens(fewer DOF, 1/15 only slowest and only Closeup 75mm lens(if available). Slower roation-verson had been made but Schorle had reasons why he sold it when not working anymore. It was a Nato/Otan-product designed by Hermann Seitz.

 

[fabulousrice]

what went wrong when i decided to buy Widelux 1500 at Adorama?
1. Had the option to buy directly at Panon but Kubota(General Manager/Owner?) didnt reply my Fax. I explicitly wanted to take it to photokina 90.
Forgot the option to test W1500 at Foto Gregor Cologne. i had seen the cam i knew it was for renting but forgot that. Adorama had it advertised over years in popphoto.
But biggest mistake was not contacting/calling up Kornelius Schorle at Pro Photo Connection, Irwine, Ca. after no reply was coming to my fax for his Electropan(pre-Noblex).
Schorle is the Noblex-Inventor. If i had known they would come with Noblex Pro 150 in 1992 i would have waited. Had one for 6 months for testing from a friend. coating is better. one of the cams lenses is shifted up a bit compared to eachother. did a shooting in a bank-entree.
Should also not have bought Roundshot 65/70/220(Panoscope 70-220-conversion from 1987). despite used(rented) it was not cheap only 3000 chf cheaper than new. RS-adventures cost me a fortune. at the end i was developping 70mm color negative films on my own and contact-printed. was timeconsuming and not that difficult.
Should have to invest in Technopan, that was the luxury-version of Horizon 202. with all 8 exposure times like the later S3Pro(i have two). Co-Inventor Rainer K.Lampinen-Panorama-guru Tampere Finland. he also inverted shift-mechanisme on Horizon 205 PC/Pan 120(export model). Also never buy or use Alpa Roto. more limits and problems than W1500. 75mm lens(fewer DOF, 1/15 only slowest and only Closeup 75mm lens(if available). Slower roation-verson had been made but Schorle had reasons why he sold it when not working anymore. It was a Nato/Otan-product designed by Hermann Seitz.

Is noblex still manufacturing them anymore? Or do people go through second-hand for these?

 

[europanorama]

I would totally forget Widelux 1500. Why?
Because beside the mentioned problem which are already huge and must be dealt by a specialist, there is a major lens-decentration.

We had to construct a U-shape to mount camera upside down. to be able to show the very same image-part on upper side of frame to be projected to the other lower side.
Repairman had then after multiple shootings to file down the film-path on upper side til both side showed an identically sharp(very sharp) image.
Its unbelievable that a many decades-old specialist was unable to produce high-quality cameras. Kubota sent me many parts e.g. rollers. they are pressing down the film on curved back. remove the stupid discs at their ends. also the new one hadnt the holes for the screws centered....these stupid discs meant for good filmguidance will only prevent film from freely moving.

 

[europanorama]

Is noblex still manufacturing them anymore? Or do people go through second-hand for these?

google. Kamerawerke Noble Dresden is gone. get yours from people who had overhauled them by us-specialist.

 

[yurihuta]

Is noblex still manufacturing them anymore? Or do people go through second-hand for these?

No parts from the manufacturer is what I was told. I donated my unrepairable 150 to the fellow in Canada repairing them.

I have had one dud Noblex 150 (no parts available) and two good Widelux cameras - including the 1500.

 

[Sirius Glass]

I never knew about all these problems with the WideLux 1500. I am glad I never gave into the impulse to buy one.

 

[halfaman]

These MF rotating panoramic cameras never make sense for me, only in 35mm. I would definitely use a 6x12 or 6x17 back with a suitable lens if I ever go panoramic in 120.

 

[europanorama]

Panon used third party companies to produce parts. When 1500 was born i bought one from Adorama for 5800 usd in 1990. had i remember cologne photo gregor having W1500 for rent i hadnt bought and waited for noblex 2 years later. schorle announced it when we met at a stand together with seitz son. knowing about possible problems i asked them to send me testfilm which they refused. cam wouldnt be new anymore.... they knew something is stinky inside. at that time panons kubota allowed me to buy directly from him. but i wanted to take the cam to photokina explicitely in 1990. time was running out. and panon didnt reply. so adorama. cam here i started testing. banding banding banding. vertical stripes. then i tried to check focus. not easy without experience, cam has only 3 exposure times. and DOF is limited. actually i am using ND-filters. and made DOF table. i have one for an older rotapancam. forgot its name. i have found digital file so could upload here. cannot do in my forum at rotapancams.net login needed.
parts were not fabricated precise enough. e.g. i removed the discs which are squeezing film. holes inside rollers noncentered- my repairman who save me by overhauling W1500 told. they used wrong metall-combination for rotation-element. later they got the drawing and improved. dont ask me from which SN. i then contacted Panon and asked explicitely to replace. first late Kubota refused telling to send back to Adorama from europe. which i refused. what can they do, replacing it? certainly not repairing. finanally i got the same crap like before. its now working properly except with the same issue like its copy widepan 140 is suffering. at 1/250 there is an overexposure some mm at start. despite shorter image on 140. 110mm image versus 122mm. we tried to prolongue start but still not perfect. finally repairman delivered U-shape smaller version to that used on roundshot to hang on helicopter door or shifting down(shift up only when mounted normally on RS 65/70/220 and others. why then u-shape if no shift there?
i found out that upper end of image was unsharp. so to compare the same subject after shot 1 cam had to hang upside down. or viceversa.... repairman had to shave upper filmrail. so it was clear lens is decentered. i had noblex 150 for 6 months for comparison. noble added 1/12 to replace or add to 1/30 dont remember. was SN 19 from a german. icould also load 220. used it for aerial shots.
someone made magnetic filterholder. we exchanged weights to have slower rotations for all speeds- resulting in 12 sec rotation.4 sec for 1/8 normally- a lot was possible, only also blurry people when moving.
have found replacement for bubblelevel. W1500 the better choice if its windy. repairman has idea to add bubblelevel into viewfinder.
NB: just have seen an ad about the first globuscope-swiss seller 3k. 1/100, 1/200, 1/400 only.

 

[europanorama]

repairman made a grip with cable release. or the old problem with hands visable in image. if trigger-collar was removed one could use adapter for cable-release.. be aware before shooting in hot environment. fire etc. dont even think about using pneumatic systems. it will not fire.pity i hadnt metallic cable. also those with plastic are not recommended. not yet tested.
I would never buy W1500 only from hands of a pro and tested. for shots from 5m and nearer a special CU-lens must be produced which we failed. had seen recently such lenses for Widepan 140 on ebay.

 

[sfphoto]

The OP stated: "comments [here] quite closely reflect much of what I had heard over the years about the issues with the 1500 - my own inclination has long been to go for one of the fixed focus Noblex 150"

Guess I got a good W1500, never had a problem even with several years of use. I like the 1500 speed selection better than the 35mm version too.
For 'Zone' focus I had to use up a bit of film to find the best settings for maximum DOF. I came up with one for interiors and another for exteriors and was all fine there after.
Never liked my 120 Noblex, just did not have the same solid feel nor the same settings.

Once one gets used to the rotation factor one finds there are may ways to make photographs w/o the 'cigar' effect. Of course such effect can be played upon too! See samples below.

For industrial clients I always brought both a rotation 120 and a non-rotation 120.
IMO these 120 panos are tripod cameras rather than adding grips/brackets.

 

[sfphoto]

BTW, one can stitch 3 Widelux 1500 images into a 360. Or just get one of these 35mm classics:

 

[Besk]

I have seen some interesting stuff from stitched Rollei TLR negatives including one 360 degree one.

 

[sfphoto]

These MF rotating panoramic cameras never make sense for me

Those big 6x12 negs are the 'cats meow' to print and rotation images can be special. Non rotation 6x12's can be made from 4x5's.

 

[halfaman]

Those big 6x12 negs are the 'cats meow' to print and rotation images can be special. Non rotation 6x12's can be made from 4x5's.

I saw once a Noblex 150 and it is a monster. Tripod only. For me it was a no-no. My Wista 45D is lighter, more compact and easier to transport.

On the other hand, I like the 35mm versions of these rotating cameras. I have a Noblex 135 that I use hand-held...

 

[Lachlan Young]

Noblex 150 and it is a monster. Tripod only.

Not at all - it's very easy to use handheld (grips are designed to stop fingers getting in shot) - and very smooth running from the electric drive. Much lighter than a Linhof Technika rigged for handheld (and even those aren't a big deal to operate if you adjust the grip sensibly).

Still very much on the fence about going for a Widelux 1500 - the drive wheel issue (and who can do the replacement thereof in a timely fashion) in a Noblex is slightly making me lean in the Widelux's direction.

 

[halfaman]

Still very much on the fence about going for a Widelux 1500 - the drive wheel issue (and who can do the replacement thereof in a timely fashion) in a Noblex is slightly making me lean in the Widelux's direction.

My Noblex 135 has that problem causing banding and it was rebuilt by Precision Camera Works in the US. Working prefectly since then.