Wicked curl on Arista Premium

[picker77]

Bought a few rolls of 120 format Arista Premium 100 and 400 a while back (and a brick of 35mm in each speed also) from Freestyle, tried a roll of 120 the other day, hung it as usual to dry, and got nice contrast and tones--but it had such a nasty curl across the short dimension it was nearly impossible to scan. The curl was so strong it actually lifted my heavy anti-newton glass a few mm in the film holder. Needless to say, scanning didn't go well.

I've not had this type of problem with any other film, and am wondering what the fix is, other than obviously using another film. I usually just hang 120 strips with plastic clothespins, two on top and two on bottom, which works with everything else, and things dry flat no problem. This curl was so strong and springy I had to "fold" the strip in quarters lengthwise to carry it in the house to cut and scan (my darkroom is 200' from the house), no way would it form a nice loose, large diameter roll like most 120 films will after drying.

 

[Photo Engineer]

Buy Ilford, Kodak or Fuji film. You are paying a little extra for curl reduction chemistry!

PE

 

[aroth87]

I just processed a roll of 35mm Arista Premium 400 and mine also had tons of curl. After I cut and sleeved it I set a couple of my wife's engineering text books on it. After a couple of days they were flatter, but still curled a little bit.

Adam

 

[Jeff Kubach]

Buy Ilford, Kodak or Fuji film. You are paying a little extra for curl reduction chemistry!

PE

That's what I do!

Jeff

 

[brucemuir]

Wait,
you guys are getting bad curl on the 35mm stuff?
Any humidity differences compared to normal workflow?
Here in the Mid-Atlantic USA its extremely dry right now.

Also do you mean curl or cupping?

 

[Photo Engineer]

Well, if the curl makes the film look like a long tube or pipe, we call it "Piping". If the film curls like a yo-yo would go up and down, then we call it a "Set". The latter is almost always caused by having old film in rolls too long and the former is due to the shrinkage of the emulsion with respect to swell of the base. The piping is often caused by lack of a back coat, or the use of poorly conditioned (many steps take place here) support.

Some types of curl can be caused by the drying conditions of the emulsion during manufacture.

All types can be either controlled or eliminated by chemistry or methods in use by Ilford, Kodak and Fuji.

PE

 

[jim appleyard]

Hang on a minute here. When did Arista **PREMIUM** (thought to be Kodak) become available in 120?

PE, if Arista Premium IS Kodak, curl reduction should already be there, no?

 

[Photo Engineer]

Jim;

IDK what Kodak puts in off label film. It is often made to spec for a customer using their spec.

PE

 

[jim appleyard]

Right, but I've heard of Aritsta *EDU* having curl, but not Premium and if Premium is made in 120, it's news to me.

Picker, are you sure you bought Arista Premium?

 

[Paul Sorensen]

If there was Arista Premium in 120 I would go buy a few bricks. Alas, no...

 

[Paul Sorensen]

Yeah, and assuming it is Arista EDU Ultra, it is Foma and curls like a MF.

 

[Photo Engineer]

If there was Arista Premium in 120 I would go buy a few bricks. Alas, no...

Curl and all?

PE

 

[Toffle]

Ok then... I thought it was just me. I actually said this out loud in my darkroom, (to nobody) "I haven't seen curl like this since I tried Lucky."

 

[Vaughn]

There is no Arista Premium 120 film.

 

[Paul Sorensen]

Curl and all?

PE

Arista Premium in 35mm is pretty clearly Plus-X and Tri-X, and it behaves and does not curl just like one would expect from Kodak. That is what I want in 120. I do realize I can, and do, get that from Kodak, I just want the Arista price.

 

[chriscrawfordphoto]

Well, if the curl makes the film look like a long tube or pipe, we call it "Piping". If the film curls like a yo-yo would go up and down, then we call it a "Set". The latter is almost always caused by having old film in rolls too long and the former is due to the shrinkage of the emulsion with respect to swell of the base. The piping is often caused by lack of a back coat, or the use of poorly conditioned (many steps take place here) support.

Some types of curl can be caused by the drying conditions of the emulsion during manufacture.

All types can be either controlled or eliminated by chemistry or methods in use by Ilford, Kodak and Fuji.

PE

Tri-X has been piping bad for me, it always does in winter here because of the very low humidity. In summer, which is usually pretty humid in Indiana, my Tri-X dries flat.

 

[GraemeMitchell]

Tri-X has been piping bad for me, it always does in winter here because of the very low humidity. In summer, which is usually pretty humid in Indiana, my Tri-X dries flat.

Chris said it, it's largely humidity during the drying that makes curl/piping bad or not. Arista Premium 35mm has that nice thick TX base too, so if it does pipe when it dries, it is a bear to flatten out.

In the winter you can try a humidifier where you dry the film. Make it as humid as physically possible. Even steaming the bathroom up may help...a bit.

Or let the film dry about 95% of the way on the reels, then when they're almost totally dry unreel and hang them til they're dry enough to handle. This way may give you more curl along the length of the film, but it's way easier to handle than piping.

 

[Photo Engineer]

I have some fresh TriX here beside me with no curl. I guess it must be the process.

Virtually all EK 35mm films used a similar or the same support, and the same is true of 120 cuts, 220 cuts and 4x5 cuts. If you measure 35mm it is about 0.005" or 5 mils, and if you measure 4x5 it is about 0.007".

PE

 

[Ronald Moravec]

Reverse curl the roll before cutting up or put in sleeves and weight under a book for 24/48 hours.

Kodak and Ilford curl too.

The film that does not curl is is film put thru a film processor and there is a dryer I suspect puts more heat on the emulsion than the base. Same C41 I do at home curls so it is not the film, it is the correct drying procedure.

 

[2F/2F]

Obviously there is no Premium (rebadged Kodak) in anything but 35mm. I believe the film in question is rebadged Foma, so we can stop talking about Kodak now and answer the OP's question.

 

[Toffle]

I have determined that in my case the curl was the result of user error... the nut behind the wheel, so to speak.

 

[altair]

I definitely think the OP was referring to Arista EDU Ultra, i.e rebadged Foma.

I'm currently making my way through a 10 roll brick of Fomapan 400. Assuming it's the same stuff as Arista EDU Ultra and the formulation/emulsion is the same, then yes, it curls like a b*tch. Or rather it 'sets', according to Photo Engineer's post.

I haven't seen anything curlier or settier (?) than this film, not even Lucky SHD100 curls this bad in my experience. After 24hours inside a heavy book, the set is still present but to a lesser degree.

 

[Jordan]

I've also had very bad curl with Arista.EDU 120 films (Foma) in the past. No such problem with the 35mm version, nor with the old relabelled Ilford products that used to be sold under the Arista name. Drying in a slightly humid environment (i.e. a shower stall after having run hot water in the shower for several minutes before) seems to help with the curl.

Arista Premium is not available in 120 format.

 

[picker77]

I just processed a roll of 35mm Arista Premium 400 and mine also had tons of curl. After I cut and sleeved it I set a couple of my wife's engineering text books on it. After a couple of days they were flatter, but still curled a little bit.

Adam

I'll try that next time. I've dealt with film curl before, but it's usually been 35mm, and the problem is usually curl in the other direction (tries to curl up like it's still on the spool). This is the first time I've run into a problem curl in the short dimension.

I made the mistake of buying into the forum rumors that this stuff was actually re-badged Tri-X and Plus-X. I have to admit it does produce very nice negatives using the development chemicals and times for those films, but there's no way this base material is the same as Kodak. If I can't figure a way around this, I'll let my local lab machine process and scan the remainder of it for me and let them deal with the headache. I hope the 35mm doesn't do the same thing, haven't tried it yet.

 

[cmacd123]

FWIW, in 35mm I find the FOMA/EDU Ultra is the flattest drying of all of them. Worse was the EFKE 400 which was some unknown film. I find that PakoSnap clips are great for hold the film straight while drying.