Why was Verichrome Pan discontinued?

[Sirius Glass]

I vaguely remember that there was an enviromental problem with Verichrome Pan. Something about an element or molecule that was bad for the water supply was the reason that it was discontinued. I cannot find a reference to the reason for the discontinuation in apug or in a web search. Does anyone know?

Steve

 

[Paul Howell]

I was under the impression that it was discontiuned along with PAN X because of poor demand after TMAX 100 was introduced. PE may have some thoughts. Vericome is the one film I really do miss for landscapes.

 

[jim appleyard]

In addition, VP was only available in 120, not 35mm. That limited its popularity.

As for the environment, I was told, but cannot verify, that mercury was used in its manufacture. Perhaps PE will see this thread and give us more info.

 

[Photo Engineer]

I really don't know. It took place about the time we got rid of Cadmium and Mercury salts, but that may not have been connected with VP.

Cadmium was a paper issue. Mercury was in both film and paper.

Sorry I don't have an answer.

PE

 

[David A. Goldfarb]

VP used to be the default B&W emulsion available in every odd format, including 110, Cirkut, and such. Kodak seemed to be recommending TMX as a replacement, but I don't know that they actually made it in all the less common formats that they made VP in, except perhaps as a special order item.

 

[fschifano]

Kodak seemed to be recommending TMX as a replacement, but I don't know that they actually made it in all the less common formats that they made VP in, except perhaps as a special order item.

And that I never did quite get. If anything, Plus-X is a lot closer in character to VP than TMX.

 

[Anscojohn]

Nothing would beat VP for a medium speed film with a long scale. Worked for a guy who shot weddings in the 50s and it was all he would use, souped in D76 to get detail in the dress and in the tuxedo. Worked for another guy who shot it in the studio for portraits, souped in Versatol. I loved it with Rodinal.
When it was still available, and I was at the local "pro" shop, one of the whiz kids wondered why someone had put the VP in with the B/W films. She thought all films with "chrome" in the name were color slide!

 

[Sirius Glass]

I cut my teeth with Verichome Pan in my Brownie Hawkeye camera.

Oh, I just realized I started photography with a TLR MF camera!

Steve

 

[DBP]

I cut my teeth with Verichome Pan in my Brownie Hawkeye camera.

Oh, I just realized I started photography with a TLR MF camera!

Steve

MF. yes, but not a TLR because the viewing lens is not in a focusing coupling with the taking lens.

 

[Neanderman]

Mercury was in both film and paper.

I assume that if someone ran a snip of VP through a GCMS, the mercury would show up and be above 'trace' amounts?

 

[Photo Engineer]

I never gave it a thought actually. I don't remember how much was used, but it was a mercuric salt of a methiodide IIRC. There were several mercury salts in use though so I can't really say.

PE

 

[gainer]

IIRC, what you used with a Brownie Hawkeye was Verichrome, an orthochromatic film. I know that is what I used in my 127 bakelite Brownie with the screw-type collapsible front, pre WWII.

 

[athanasius80]

VP was officially discontinued in 2002, and I still miss it. I was under the impression that the cadmium and mercury issues were from the 1980s though. Does anyone know for sure?

 

[David H. Bebbington]

I always thought the reason was the demise of the one-exposure-setting box camera, since VP was a thick-coated film designed for maximum exposure latitude when used with this type of camera. I thought that Kodak felt that Plus-X was the natural successor to VP if extreme tolerance to exposure errors was not required.

Regards,

David

 

[Photo Engineer]

VP was officially discontinued in 2002, and I still miss it. I was under the impression that the cadmium and mercury issues were from the 1980s though. Does anyone know for sure?

Chris;

You are right. The formulas removed the toxic stuff earlier, so my thoughs were incorrect. It must have been a purely economic issue. The start of the 'purge' of the heavy metals was in about 1965. It was completed in the 70s.

Sorry for the error there.

PE

 

[Roger Hicks]

Cadmium was certainly responsible for the demise of Super-XX, which was the last cadmium-containing EK film (source: Carl Kohrt in conversation), so if Verichrome disappeared later (as I seem to recall that it did, though I could very easily be wrong), then it wasn't cadmium.

Cheers,

Roger

 

[greybeard]

There is someplace in my files an article from the predecessor magazine to Photomethods, describing a double-layer film (low-density high-speed emulsion layered onto normal-density low-speed) intended for scientific imaging where the exposure was unpredictable. A rocketry scene "normally" exposed for the high-speed layer, for example, would still be captured if the thing blew up, since the low-speed layer would not be blocked and the high-speed would just add a little base density. In passing, it was mentioned that something similar was used in Verichrome Pan, so that amateurs with box cameras were likely to get printable negatives under a wide range of conditions. No idea if this is true, but it sounds plausible.

 

[jim appleyard]

Nothing would beat VP for a medium speed film with a long scale. Worked for a guy who shot weddings in the 50s and it was all he would use, souped in D76 to get detail in the dress and in the tuxedo. Worked for another guy who shot it in the studio for portraits, souped in Versatol. I loved it with Rodinal.
When it was still available, and I was at the local "pro" shop, one of the whiz kids wondered why someone had put the VP in with the B/W films. She thought all films with "chrome" in the name were color slide!

I've heard this from other wedding pros. It was thought that the dual layer emulsion had a lot to do with both tuxes and gowns coming out well. Of course the skill of the photographer should not be overlooked; but isn't knowing how to use good tools properly a skill?

I used to work with a "know it all" at a camera store and a woman came in asking for VP black & white. My co-worker said, "No such thing! All chrome films are color slide." He went hiding in the corner with his tail between his legs when I handed the woman a roll of VP!

Another film I miss and did not get to use enough of it.

 

[Photo Engineer]

There is someplace in my files an article from the predecessor magazine to Photomethods, describing a double-layer film (low-density high-speed emulsion layered onto normal-density low-speed) intended for scientific imaging where the exposure was unpredictable. A rocketry scene "normally" exposed for the high-speed layer, for example, would still be captured if the thing blew up, since the low-speed layer would not be blocked and the high-speed would just add a little base density. In passing, it was mentioned that something similar was used in Verichrome Pan, so that amateurs with box cameras were likely to get printable negatives under a wide range of conditions. No idea if this is true, but it sounds plausible.

There were several articles about this in Popular Photography and other mags back when it was introduced.

The common picture was taken using a lit lightbulb where you could see both the glass and the filament depending on exposure.

Again, I don't remember the details of this.

PE

 

[Photo Engineer]

Cadmium was certainly responsible for the demise of Super-XX, which was the last cadmium-containing EK film (source: Carl Kohrt in conversation), so if Verichrome disappeared later (as I seem to recall that it did, though I could very easily be wrong), then it wasn't cadmium.

Cheers,

Roger

You are correct Roger as I commented above. I slipped a cog in memory. It was Super XX I should have been thinking of.

However, Carl joined Kodak just about the time the Cadmium projects were finishing up. So, he never was part of the mainstream work AFAIK. As I noted above though, Cadmium was mainly an actor in papers as a means of controlling toe and overall contrast. This was not as much of a problem in film. Since I mainly worked on papers with one exception, Gold 400, I was not into all of the uses for Cadmium salts in films.

I do know that it has been shown that Cadmium has no effect on some types of emulsion. I have seen this myself. But that is another story.

PE

 

[Steve Indvik]

I always thought the reason was the demise of the one-exposure-setting box camera, since VP was a thick-coated film designed for maximum exposure latitude when used with this type of camera. I thought that Kodak felt that Plus-X was the natural successor to VP if extreme tolerance to exposure errors was not required.

There is a book of photos by Jim Alinder (text by Wright Morris) shot with VP and an instamatic - "Picture America". Wonderful prints. The wide exposure lattitude is clearly evident. I've got one of those Tessar instamatics just in case 110 makes a comeback!

Steve

 

[Rolleiflexible]

There were several articles about this in Popular Photography and other mags back when it was introduced.

The common picture was taken using a lit lightbulb where you could see both the glass and the filament depending on exposure.

Again, I don't remember the details of this.

PE

Sounds like this would have been the film of choice for Holga shooters.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Reference to a Kodak Brownie Hawkeye camera.

MF. yes, but not a TLR because the viewing lens is not in a focusing coupling with the taking lens.

I beg to differ! The two were tightly coupled! Neither moved.

The camera came with Verichrome Pan and the first photos looked good so I never tried anything else.

Steve

 

[Michel Hardy-Vallée]

I used to work with a "know it all" at a camera store and a woman came in asking for VP black & white. My co-worker said, "No such thing! All chrome films are color slide." He went hiding in the corner with his tail between his legs when I handed the woman a roll of VP!

Funny thing you should mention that, I've personally long asked myself why this was so. Good thing APUG saved me before I committed any know-it-all crimes!

cf: (there was a url link here which no longer exists)

Don't miss David Bebbington's ad on page 1 and Helen Bach's list of B&W "chrome" films on p. 2

 

[Sirius Glass]

Thank you I really enjoyed that.

Steve