Why so little enthusiasm for the Nikon Z range?

[Down Under]

Is it just me - or is there little enthusiasm for the Nikon Z6 and Z7 mirrorless range released last year?

I now find myself in somewhat of a quandary over these cameras, and I would greatly appreciate some advice.

I use digital (85%) and film (15%) to shoot a reasonable range of subjects, mostly colonial architecture. Not only old buildings (also new buildings), but also landscapes, some street work, people (candid portraits), local events, whatever I find in my travels or my local rambles. On the whole, my subjects tend not to move too fast.

I retired in 2012 and have used two D700s with a good set of excellent AF D lenses. These cameras (like their owner) are getting long in the tooth, and my even older D90 (our at-home P&S) is now so old and obsolete that it isn't even a game player in my photography (hough it continues to make excellent images).

Last December I turned 71, and my dear partner, having just received a long-overdue family inheritance, has offered me a delayed retirement gift of my choice - a new Nikon Z6 with adapter or a Nikon Df, also new. I will likely buy a camera without lens although I'm interested in the (as yet untested by me) 24-70 Z.

I've shot with the Df. I like it, and I have a good selection of ancient Nikkors I could use with it, but on the whole it left me rather underwhelmed. Too little on offer for too much money, was my summing up. I do like its look and ergonomically it's pleasant to work with. Results are OK, quite close to what I'm now getting with my aging D700s.

The Z6 is a fine machine but total overkill for me. I don't need all that zip. The Z6 would suit me so much better. I've handled one and the sales person (in Melbourne) kindly let me try it for a few images with in the shop.Again, I thought, just OK, but then the situation was somewhat limited. Not out in the field, no old colonial mansions calling out for a portrait...

I like how it handles and the ergonomics are OK (the Df's were better, I believe). One question I didn't ask was, how will it cope with my collection of AF D lenses? Using the adaptor, of course. Does this gizmo limit the lens functions in any way or impact on the image quality?

I have 10 D lenses in the 20-180 range and a few zooms and a dozen old Nikkors, F, AI and AIS. Mostly F as I bought them in the' 70s and '80s to use with my Nikkormats, which I still have and use. Dinosaur glass, but very fine image-makers.

I've searched the web for some intelligent technical and user Z6 and Df reviews, largey to no avail. Found one (in a photo web site) from Z6 users who were, on the whole, underwhelmed for various reasons, some applied to me, others didn't.

I know camera reviews are basically meant to sell cameras, so the usual disclaimers apply. What I find perplexing is that, for the most part, other than the usual marketing-sale hyperbole which all go along the lines of "Gee whiz! It's Nikon, it's new, and it's wonderful!" there wasn't much I could relate to in terms of how the camera works in the field,how shooters felt about actually using it, and how it compares to other current Nikon Ds.

Would anyone with a Z6 care to comment? There will be sales coming up in Australia in March for the Z6 and I would like to buy then if I decide to go that way. Df prices on the whole are somewhat too high for my budget in Melbourne (I could buy a Z6 kit including the 24-70 on special for a few hundred more than I would have to pay for a new Df) and I have to admit I am at a complete loss to decide which way to go.

So, in two words, Please Help. Many thanks in advance.

 

[mshchem]

Is it just me - or is there little enthusiasm for the Nikon Z6 and Z7 mirrorless range released last year?

I now find myself in somewhat of a quandary over these cameras, and I would greatly appreciate some advice.

I use digital (85%) and film (15%) to shoot a reasonable range of subjects, mostly colonial architecture. Not only old buildings (also new buildings), but also landscapes, some street work, people (candid portraits), local events, whatever I find in my travels or my local rambles. On the whole, my subjects tend not to move too fast.

I retired in 2012 and have used D700s with D lenses. Last year I turned 71, and my partner, having just received a fairly good family inheritance, has now offered me a delayed retirement gift of my choice - a new Nikon Z6 with adapter or a Nikon Df, also new. I will likely buy a camera without lens although I'm interested in the (as yet untestedby me) 24-70 Z.

I've shot with the Df. I like it, and I have a good selection of old Nikkors I could use with it, but on the whole it left me rather underwhelmed. Too little on offer for too much money, was my summing up. I do like its look and ergonomically it's pleasant to work with. Results are OK, quite close to what I'm now getting with my aging D700s.

The Z6 is overkill for me. I don't need all that zip. The Z6 would suit me much, much better. I've handled one and the sales person in Melbourne who showed me how it functions let me try it for a few images with in the shop.Again, I thought, just OK, but then the situation was somewhat limited. Not out in the filed, no old colonial bungalows calling out for a portrait...

I like how it handles and the ergonomics are OK (the Df's were better, I believe). One question I didn't ask was, how will it cope with my collection of AF D lenses? Using the adaptor, of course. Does this gizmo limit the lens functions in any way or impact on the image quality?

I have about ten D lenses ranging from 20 to 180 and a few zooms. About twelve old Nikkors, F, AI and AIS. Mostly F as I bought them in the 70s and 80s to use with my Nikkormats.

I've searched the web for some intelligent technical and user reviews, to no avail. Found one (in a photo web site) from users who were, on the whole, underwhelmed as I am, for various reasons, some applied to me, others didn't.

I know that camera reviews are basically meant to sell cameras, so the usual disclaimers apply. What I find perplexing is that, for the most part, other than the usual marketing-sale hyperbole which all go along the lines of "Gee whiz! It's Nikon, it's new, and it's wonderful!" there wasn't much I could relate to in terms of how the camera works in the field,how shooters felt about actually using it, and how it compares to other current Nikon Ds.

Would anyone with a Z6 care to comment? There will be sales coming up in Australia in March for the Z6 and I would like to buy then if I decide to go that way. Df prices on the whole are somewhat too high for my budget in Melbourne (I could buy a Z6 kit including the 24-70 on special for a few hundred more than I would have to pay for a new Df) and I have to admit I am at a complete loss to decide which way to go.

So, in two words, Please Help. Many thanks in advance.

I've not handled one. I bought a mint D5 from a dealer in Japan, I suspect it may have been taken on trade for a Z camera. I love the older Nikkor af-d fast prime lenses. With a fast lens the optical finder shines. I'm sure DSLR days are numbered as electronic viewfinders get better. I have huge hands, the D5 fits me like a glove. I love my AF-D glass as it works with my F, F2A , F3, F5. I really look forward to seeing Nikon Z system as it fully develops, I think Nikon has done a good job.
Best Mike

 

[mshchem]

PS I would pass on the Df even though it's a beautiful looking nicely designed camera. That's unless you really want one

 

[locutus]

The F mount adapter for the Z's does not support Autofocus with the AF-D (Screwdriver style) lenses, everything else works. So if you want autofocus with AF-D lenses the Z's aren't a good platform currently.

I fear the hope that Nikon at some point will offer a adapter with support for AF-D Autofocus is slim

 

[Down Under]

The F mount adapter for the Z's does not support Autofocus with the AF-D (Screwdriver style) lenses, everything else works. So if you want autofocus with AF-D lenses the Z's aren't a good platform currently.

I fear the hope that Nikon at some point will offer a adapter with support for AF-D Autofocus is slim

Huh! This will be a deal-breaker for me. The salesperson in Melbourne didn't mention it (I wonder why not?)

May I ask a further question? How does the Z6 and the kit 24-70 measure up in the field? That lens when I saw it looked 'plasticky' and reminded me of two earlier Nikon G 28-80s I got with two F65s (aka N65s) I bought many years ago. Results did not satisfy me (poor sharpness soft pastel colors) and I quickly offloaded them in a trade for better glass.

Agree with mshchem (#3) the Df is basically a good play toy for us retired Boomers but with only 16 MP it seems no cigar as a working tool in the field. But yes, it sure does look and feel soooo nice...

 

[locutus]

Plastic housing aside, the new 24-70/4 seems to be very good. Similiar to the 24-70/2.8 but well a stop slower and a bit less robust. Comparisons with 90's budget zooms are probably unkind.

I'm looking at getting a body for my Leica R lenses, and i'm holding on till i can also try the Panasonic S1R.

 

[faberryman]

Do you feel you really need a new camera? You don't sound that excited about the prospect. Do you print your images? If so, how big?

 

[Theo Sulphate]

As I stated in another thread, my D700 is more than good enough and the prospect of having to buy a set of Z lenses in addition to my F-mount lenses wasn't that attractive.

Also, there's this comparison:

https://kenrockwell.com/tech/comparisons/nikon-vs-canon-vs-sony-full-frame.htm

and I have to really agree with Ken that Canon has a much superior menu system (to me it is easier to use, look at, and is better designed) - I realized that long ago with the 5D MkIII. So, if I were going to buy mirrorless -- I'd buy Canon rather than Nikon, since I'd have to get a new set of lenses anyway.

 

[MattKing]

I expect any lack of enthusiasm for the Nikon Z system relates to two factors:
1) the lack of enthusiasm for any new cameras - Canon for one is apparently estimating a 50% further drop of camera sales; and
2) the fact that a lot of the popularity of Nikon relates to the fact that so many vintage Nikon lenses fit so many bodies - without adapters. Not for the new cameras though.

 

[flatulent1]

I had a week to play with a Z6 using my AF-S and AI-S lenses. I liked it very much. The controls were excellent. The menus were typical Nikon. My only complaint was how it felt in the hand, the inside of the grip felt unaccountably sharp, as did the bottom of the camera on my right palm. I bought the Canon R instead, no regrets.

 

[gorbas]

Nikon was very late in the game. Instead of investing time and money in ridiculous ultra small sensor in Nikon 1 J type cameras, they should go mirrorless even with APSC sensor. Sony and Fuji were smarter and faster.

 

[jeroenp]

Not a z6 owner, so for what it's worth:

I use AF-D (and ais) lenses on film bodies (F4, F801s) and have been holding off buying digital bodies for years. I've come to terms with the idea that I'll only be using those lenses on my old camera's: I'm assuming that I won't like working with adapters very much: Stop down metering, no automatic EVF enlarging like when focusing a fly by wire mirrorless lens... I'd end up buying the native lenses eventually.

I'm surprised that the Df is still available. None of the online shops here in Europe have it in their lists.

I don't see the 16MP on the Df as an issue, although it also doesn't offer much over an D700 I guess. But as you consider the Z7 overkill I'm guessing you don't have the need for a D850 either. If you're not in a hurry, you could wait for the D750 follow up model that's rumored to appear this year.

 

[jtk]

Everybody has figured out that there's no future for Nikon mirrorless cameras due to the huge installed flapping-mirror installed base (flapping mirrors require inferior optics...Leica knows that). Same would be true for Canon except that Canon has offered non-flapping-mirror cameras for a long time, as well as Canon printers etc etc etc.

 

[Down Under]

Do you feel you really need a new camera? You don't sound that excited about the prospect. Do you print your images? If so, how big?

It's about looking a gift horse in the mouth.

Be (a little) envious, I'm okay with that.

 

[Down Under]

Many thanks to all who have contributed positively to my thread. Your information has been very useful.

In price term,s Z6 kis are being discounted quite heavily in Australia. Which must say something. The unanswered (by the industry at least) question is, what?

Meantime, I've done more research into the Z6 (my interest in the Df has fallen by the wayside for the time being) and came up with two excellent sites. .

For all I wanted to find out re the technicals for the Z6 and Z7 plus lenses, I recommend - https://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/mirrorless/z6.htm

Also the very detailed comparison article on Ken's site, between the two cameras, as recommended by Theo Sulphate (#8). Intelligently written and well worth reading.

As a general discussion, some lively activity about the Z6 on this site, see Nikon Z mirrorless talk - https://www.dpreview.com/forums/1068?page=3&view=list

I found one poster who seems to be in a similar situation to mine, and will follow up.

No decision made as yet. The Df is being sold new in Australia now, but oddly, I can today buy a Z6 kit including lens for a little more than the price of a new Df body. Makes no sense to me, but then little if anything about Nikon's marketing strategy and the bloated camera lines they are flogging (or trying to flog), does anyway.

 

[RalphLambrecht]

I don't see the attraction;mirror slap destroying image quality has never been an issue for me.My next camera needs to have in-body 6-axis VR to get me excited.

 

[Paul Howell]

Now that Panasonic and Sigma are going to build full frame bodies with Leica L mount I might wait a while to see what Panasonic comes up with. From I read Sigma may have a full frame L mount out by the end of the year. If it's based on the Favon sensor might have really good resolution but poor low light. My guess is that Sigma will makes L mount lens, so if Panasonic brings out a body with a range of lens coupled with Sigma, well might be worth the wait.

 

[resummerfield]

I’m following this thread with great interest, as I’m in the same situation. I’ve been using Nikon since the original F in 1970, and now use the D4. Along the way I’ve accumulated quite a collection of Nikon glass, but with the D4 I find I’m using only a few quality lenses designed for digital. So my next step is either the D5 or the Z6/7.

I also have a Sony A7 series 2, on which I use my Nikon glass with adapters.

My conclusions so far…

Adapters are clumsy to use. It is interesting to use some old Nikon lenses, but for any professional jobs I always use the newer digital lenses. Autofocus, exposure, even the handling is better without an adapter.

The Electronic View Finder is awkward to use in fast action shooting. EVF is satisfactory for studio work, but low light action shooting requires an optical viewfinder.

I would like to evaluate a Z6/7, but unless it performs better than the Sony A7 series 2, I will continue with a D5.

 

[Chan Tran]

I do not consider the Z primarily because it's a mirrorless as I hate the EVF. Otherwise the Z's are reasonably good cameras.

 

[jtk]

One thing to consider: Canon and Sony outright own the video market with both DSLRs and with their dedicated video cameras.

Hollywood movies have been made with Canon DSLRs for the past ten years. Not Nikon.

Video has long been an important part of commercial/fashion/wedding studio photography and Nikon hasn't attempted to compete.

If you're a traveler or outdoor photographer the weight and mechanical risk of the flapping mirror system is a negative.

If Nikon was serious it would buy RED, but of course that's mostly dedicated to Canon.

 

[Theo Sulphate]

...
If you're a traveler or outdoor photographer the weight and mechanical risk of the flapping mirror system is a negative.
...

Seriously. A former co-worker bought an Olympus E-M5 MkII with three lenses and put the whole kit in a case that formerly held his D800 with one lens.

 

[TheFlyingCamera]

As someone who used to shoot a Canon 5D Mk 1, I switched to a Fuji XT-1 a few years ago, and then got an XT-2 recently. I mention this because the Fujis have outstanding ergonomics, and Fuji color technology is second to none. Also, in regards to the megapixel race, 16 mp in my XT-1 has not been a hindrance for shooting anything or making prints (from JPEGS!!!) up to 17x22, which is the biggest my Epson 3880 can handle. If you want to keep using your old glass, then there are adapters out there that will let you use your Nikkor lenses on the Fuji. Not sure if they will give you auto-focus with the AF-D lenses or not.

 

[Larry Cloetta]

I’ve had a lot of cameras in my day, including Nikons from the SP to a D800E, and Leicas from a iiia to an SL 601, Pentaxes, Linhofs, Contaxes, Canons, Rolleiflexes, Blads, and more. I sold the Leica SL to buy the Nikon Z7, which has turned out to be a significant step up.
The current lack of an optimum solution for using AF-D lenses for the OP aside, the general tenor of this thread is nowhere near as positive as this camera deserves. Some of the referenced links to internet “reviews” might be taken with a grain of salt; at least that is my opinion after owning the camera and contrasting actual use with hearsay.
For tracking extremely fast moving action, it isn’t as good as a D850, but no camera besides a D850 is currently as good as a D850, so that’s hardly a negative. It’s more than capable of all kinds of action photography, as people are proving every day. The EVF is excellent.

The following four threads over at Fred Miranda have the best balanced information on the Z series cameras I have found. Pluses and minuses, with the most valid coming from actual owners instead of “I tried one in the store” type comments. More to the point there are a ton of photos which show how good the sensor is, and how well these cameras do, or don’t do, for every type of photography, from sports to model shoots. What could be improved and what’s essentially perfect now. It will take a while to wade through all this, but for anyone considering if either a Z6 or Z7 might be right for them, this is probably overall the most helpful place to look.

Me, I have no shortage of enthusiasm for this camera at all. 85% of the time I still shoot film, because I enjoy it, but the Z series Nikons are wonderful cameras for digital. Highly recommended. YMMV.

https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1563749

https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1571164

https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1561983

https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1559075

 

[Tom Kershaw]

As someone who used to shoot a Canon 5D Mk 1, I switched to a Fuji XT-1 a few years ago, and then got an XT-2 recently. I mention this because the Fujis have outstanding ergonomics, and Fuji color technology is second to none. Also, in regards to the megapixel race, 16 mp in my XT-1 has not been a hindrance for shooting anything or making prints (from JPEGS!!!) up to 17x22, which is the biggest my Epson 3880 can handle. If you want to keep using your old glass, then there are adapters out there that will let you use your Nikkor lenses on the Fuji. Not sure if they will give you auto-focus with the AF-D lenses or not.

Scott,

Roughly how much digital are you using compared to film? I tend to think of your medium format work / lomo 6x12 / large format, from what you've posted here. Didn't you use a Contax G2 at one point, perhaps the Fuji has replaced this?

Tom

 

[RalphLambrecht]

Is it just me - or is there little enthusiasm for the Nikon Z6 and Z7 mirrorless range released last year?

I now find myself in somewhat of a quandary over these cameras, and I would greatly appreciate some advice.

I use digital (85%) and film (15%) to shoot a reasonable range of subjects, mostly colonial architecture. Not only old buildings (also new buildings), but also landscapes, some street work, people (candid portraits), local events, whatever I find in my travels or my local rambles. On the whole, my subjects tend not to move too fast.

I retired in 2012 and have used two D700s with a good set of excellent AF D lenses. These cameras (like their owner) are getting long in the tooth, and my even older D90 (our at-home P&S) is now so old and obsolete that it isn't even a game player in my photography (hough it continues to make excellent images).

Last December I turned 71, and my dear partner, having just received a long-overdue family inheritance, has offered me a delayed retirement gift of my choice - a new Nikon Z6 with adapter or a Nikon Df, also new. I will likely buy a camera without lens although I'm interested in the (as yet untested by me) 24-70 Z.

I've shot with the Df. I like it, and I have a good selection of ancient Nikkors I could use with it, but on the whole it left me rather underwhelmed. Too little on offer for too much money, was my summing up. I do like its look and ergonomically it's pleasant to work with. Results are OK, quite close to what I'm now getting with my aging D700s.

The Z6 is a fine machine but total overkill for me. I don't need all that zip. The Z6 would suit me so much better. I've handled one and the sales person (in Melbourne) kindly let me try it for a few images with in the shop.Again, I thought, just OK, but then the situation was somewhat limited. Not out in the field, no old colonial mansions calling out for a portrait...

I like how it handles and the ergonomics are OK (the Df's were better, I believe). One question I didn't ask was, how will it cope with my collection of AF D lenses? Using the adaptor, of course. Does this gizmo limit the lens functions in any way or impact on the image quality?

I have 10 D lenses in the 20-180 range and a few zooms and a dozen old Nikkors, F, AI and AIS. Mostly F as I bought them in the' 70s and '80s to use with my Nikkormats, which I still have and use. Dinosaur glass, but very fine image-makers.

I've searched the web for some intelligent technical and user Z6 and Df reviews, largey to no avail. Found one (in a photo web site) from Z6 users who were, on the whole, underwhelmed for various reasons, some applied to me, others didn't.

I know camera reviews are basically meant to sell cameras, so the usual disclaimers apply. What I find perplexing is that, for the most part, other than the usual marketing-sale hyperbole which all go along the lines of "Gee whiz! It's Nikon, it's new, and it's wonderful!" there wasn't much I could relate to in terms of how the camera works in the field,how shooters felt about actually using it, and how it compares to other current Nikon Ds.

Would anyone with a Z6 care to comment? There will be sales coming up in Australia in March for the Z6 and I would like to buy then if I decide to go that way. Df prices on the whole are somewhat too high for my budget in Melbourne (I could buy a Z6 kit including the 24-70 on special for a few hundred more than I would have to pay for a new Df) and I have to admit I am at a complete loss to decide which way to go.

So, in two words, Please Help. Many thanks in advance.

I'm so pleased with my D80 that I see no reason fr a new camera at this moment except for in-body 6-axis VR.