Why shoot film

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DREW WILEY

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Well, as per that wedding lawsuit incident ... One thing every commercial photographer needs in his kit is not only some kind of light meter, but a
Jerk-O-Meter. It will instantly beep if the potential client happens to be a lawyer, billionaire, sports or media jerk, or anyone else who routinely stiffs
people or customarily sues them at the drop of a pin, including... well, no politics allowed here. But it seems that most young people these days simply want a whole bunch of shots they can digitally edit themselves online during the honeymoon, who apparently haven't figured out what to actually do on a honeymoon yet, so all their friends can instantly revisit the wedding online too. That's fine. Different generation. Except that a year
or two later they do start having regrets that nothing of real quality exists to honor the memory. Hence a niche remains for those photographers
who can themselves pick and choose, and deal only with clients with a better sense of taste in the first place.
 

Cropline

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Aside from being a tangible record and the quality film can provide, it's also the anticipation of seeing if your photographic attempts were achieved as desired or intended.
 

Sirius Glass

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But if the same person gets behind two cameras and prefers one......

I was looking for fast action sports photographed with Graflex Speed Graphics and found this....I imagine most people were aware of it but I wasn't....

http://petapixel.com/2013/02/08/david-burnetts-speed-graphic-photos-of-the-london-2012-olympics/

Now that is real photography! Capturing the decisive moment with timing and experience and not spraying shots all over the place like relieving oneself on a wall.
 

tomfrh

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If film based sports photography is about patiently waiting for that single decisive moment, and digital is about lazily firing off burst in the hope something is caught, why then did film cameras have high speed motor drives? Why is the highest fps camera I've ever owned the Canon EOS 1v? 10 frames per second, which smokes all but the most expensive digital slrs.

I don't see anything wrong with waiting for the right time and then firing off a burst and then subsequently picking the best. It's a valid way to catch the decisive moment.

That applauded digital shot of smiling Usain bolt was a decisive moment that would be very unlikely to have been caught on an old speed graphic.
 

Sirius Glass

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The high speed motor drives on the film cameras was a feature that was easy to add. Since the 1970's camera manufactures would keep releasing models with new features every few months to keep people buying the latest model. Many of those new features were useful, some were not. Good photographers can maintain both their shutter control and their bladder control.
 

DREW WILEY

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The electronics marketing ploy of always needing the latest and the greatest, at the expense of enduring mechanical reliability, really began well back
in the days of automated film cameras. I hated even those. Every time you opened the inside of a Natl Geo cover there was some new Nikon or Canon that you just had to purchase in order to bag that picture on the ad. Everything gotta got an owner's manual as thick as a phone book to tell you which seventy-three functions you need to turn off before you can make a real picture. I'll stick with my Nikon FM2n, thank you. Doesn't even require a battery.
 

Sirius Glass

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The electronics marketing ploy of always needing the latest and the greatest, at the expense of enduring mechanical reliability, really began well back
in the days of automated film cameras. I hated even those. Every time you opened the inside of a Natl Geo cover there was some new Nikon or Canon that you just had to purchase in order to bag that picture on the ad. Everything gotta got an owner's manual as thick as a phone book to tell you which seventy-three functions you need to turn off before you can make a real picture. I'll stick with my Nikon FM2n, thank you. Doesn't even require a battery.

Amen. I decided to go slumming by taking the 35mm cameras on a vacation to Palm Springs this week. I checked the batteries before I left. The one time I decided to use the camera I again checked the battery when I got out of the car and rode up the Palm Springs Tram. At the top I decided to take a photography and the camera would not work because the battery had changed its mind and decided that it did not have the energy left but it did show the full display like it was ready to be used. Of course the shop did not have the needed batteries. If I had taken the Hasselblad I could have shot as many photographs as I wanted.
 

tomfrh

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I love minimal cameras too. I hate options.

I just don't agree there's anything wrong with using a burst to catch a moment, nor that burst shooting is unique to digital.
 

Alan Gales

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I don't see anything wrong with waiting for the right time and then firing off a burst and then subsequently picking the best. It's a valid way to catch the decisive moment.


+1

I shot fast pitch softball for years. I used Nikon D200 and later D300 cameras which were able to shoot at 5 frames per second. Trying to photograph the yellow softball coming off the bat is tuff. Waiting for the right time and firing off a bursts works great. The girls and their parents loved the shots!

Sports photographers are there to get the shot. Who cares how they achieve it.
 
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fstop

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+1

I shot fast pitch softball for years. I used Nikon D200 and later D300 cameras which were able to shoot at 5 frames per second. Trying to photograph the yellow softball coming off the bat is tuff. Waiting for the right time and firing off a bursts works great. The girls and their parents loved the shots!

Sports photographers are there to get the shot. Who cares how they achieve it.
Especially if those shots going straight to the net,
Oh yeah, absolutely... I quite agree. One of the reasons why I like to (mainly) use 100% mechanical, always repairable film cameras.

Who knows in 40 years cameras might enjoy the same aftermarket support afforded to vintage cars. Depending on what car it is, you can build an entirely new car out of aftermarket parts.shouldn't be too hard to reverse engineer an F-2, with modern manufacturing techniques it could be even better than the original.
 

Cropline

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Especially if those shots going straight to the net,


......shouldn't be too hard to reverse engineer an F-2, with modern manufacturing techniques it could be even better than the original.

Better? Stronger? Faster? Like the $6 million, bionic camera?
 

LAG

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But if the same person gets behind two cameras and prefers one......

Then, it is only a matter of particular taste, but it doesn't mean you'll end up with a better result with "the chosen"!

I was looking for fast action sports photographed with Graflex Speed Graphics and found this....I imagine most people were aware of it but I wasn't....

http://petapixel.com/2013/02/08/david-burnetts-speed-graphic-photos-of-the-london-2012-olympics/

But in this example here, the difference is David (eyes, mind, ideas ...) and for him "what I hoped to do was to create a set of pictures which kind of lets the viewer know what it was like being there, more so than necessarily getting any strictly “amazing action” pictures"

There are other examples

ca8a2593-8caa-4ca0-bb2d-22bf770cdecb-620x372.jpeg

Mike King himself (mentioned in that article), who embraced part of his work with Digital as well, because it would be foolish to deny the evidence of the limitations (or as David mentioned "difficulties") of either outcomes.
 

LAG

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Who knows in 40 years cameras might enjoy the same aftermarket support afforded to vintage cars

But same thing happens with any everyday object, not only with Photographic cameras, I mean that the common sense suggests: the more complicated the adopted design model, the more difficult will be the arrangement, and if that is what worries people from using one or another, you can always use a simple pinhole box or even not a camera at all.
 

Agulliver

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Wedding photography...something I only do strictly as a guest because I literally cannot handle the responsibility for someone's precious memories of their special day. Back in 2005 I attended the wedding of a C list celebrity. The wedding was in Boston, MA and so I took what I could in my hand luggage. At that point in time it meant a 2MP Fuji digicam for the stag night in a local bar, and my Praktica BX20S plus Kiev 6C for the wedding and reception. I loaded the Kiev with some Konica 3200 colour film - yes that once existed!

What I decided to do, was to "get the picture nobody else does"...so no flash, medium format ultra high speed film. Those 12 frames yielded 8 really nice photos...the couple making their vows, cutting the cake, group shots, and their first dance. the film used made the pictures stand out, and my insistence on not using a flash (it was on the Praktica).

The couple and family agreed that despite having excellent digital photos from a professional, who I believe was paid several thousand $ for his work, my 8 MF photographs stood out as their favourites. I am not knocking the pro's work, it was good. As was his editing. But my 6x6 photos just had a different look about them which to this day the bride says makes her feel like she is there again. A bit of a shame, since they split this year!

I don't like to think of "waiting for the moment" as "real" photography, and scattergun as not. They are both techniques I've used. I think I just feel that the former is more down to me rather than the electronics. When I look at photographs I have taken of racing cars, or basketball players or rock musicians, or even friends partying and think, "Yeah, I nailed that "...I can transport myself back to the moment I pressed the shutter. Not so with burst shooting - it wasn't me who nailed the moment. I have manual and motor wind film cameras, and a BX winder for my beloved Praktica. I rarely use that winder, and often don't really take any sort of advantage of motor wind. It's a convenience in that my thumb isn't over excercised, I suppose.

I also get a kick out of using old technology, and I understand not everyone feels the same way. Perhaps like the chap with the Graflex at the Olympics, I enjoy doing something a bit different...especially if others will look at me and say "he's nuts".
 

DREW WILEY

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I had a co-worker who insisted that I take his wedding pictures. I did their formal portraits with 4x5 in advance, and they even had the shot enlarged,
framed, and on display at the entry to the reception. But he wanted all the ceremony shots done with my 6x7, not 35mm (digi didn't exist yet). The
pastor's wife told me, "no cameras allowed in the Sanctuary". But the groom was paying me, so I followed his rules of, "ingore the pastor's wife".
So there I go, KER-LUNK, KER-LUNK, one loud 6x7 mirror slap after another, with the pastor's wife reading me the riot act the whole time.
 

mklw1954

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You all may enjoy reading "The Revenge of Analog: Real Things and Why They Matter", by Richard Sax. There's a chapter on film photography in addition to vinyl records and a few other things. It provides a good discussion on the attraction of analog, including shooting film.
 

fstop

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Better? Stronger? Faster? Like the $6 million, bionic camera?
Not quite, more like between 2500-3000 USD. never happen though, no one will buy one even though they say they would kill to buy a new film camera.
 

RichardJack

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Hi and welcome to APUG!

To answer your question, there are all kinds of reasons why people choose to shoot on film and print in darkrooms. "Megapixels" is really not one of them. It's in al likelihood true that you get more resolution from a modern digital sensor than from a frame of 35mm film (though you'd still pay a lot to be able to exceed the information content of a sheet of large format film). And that matters ... if you're printing murals. The difference in resolution is indistinguishable to the eye for the most common print sizes. (Also, there are huge false equivalencies made because of the spatial arrangement of silver grains or dye clouds in an emulsion, and the way the eye sees their 'resolution' is very, very different from that in a grid of pixels, but that's another whole can of worms to discuss and only slightly relevant to your question. Just to say that as a result of the nature of the materials, film and digital sensors can sometimes bring a different 'look' to an image)

So let's get away from the question of which medium is better or worse -- particularly using resolution as measured in a unit that only applies to one of the media anyway. It's not a very helpful metric for any practical purpose.

So why shoot a medium that is expensive and time-consuming? Here are a few reasons that I have no doubt others will add to or disagree with:

1. It's expensive and time-consuming. By which I mean, once you've paid for your camera and your computer and your printer, shooting a digital image costs almost nothing (actually it costs a little bit of wear and tear on your shutter, bit it feels free until you suddenly have the repair bill :smile:). Shooting film means constantly buying film and paper to print it on (of course lots of people scan film too). It means having 36 frames on a 135 roll, or a dozen frames on a 120 roll. Or two frames in a 4x5 film holder. You stop 'spray and pray' photography. You bring a new awareness and mindfulness to each shot. You actually look at each scene and image you make, because you are investing in each and every photograph. Of course you still screw up. Often. And a 35mm frame is still very cheap. But many, many of us find that the constraints of the medium make us better photographers.

2. It's really cheap. What? I thought you just said it was expensive and time-consuming? See the first sentence above: "once you've paid for your camera and your computer and your printer". These are expensive items. And they go obsolete in about 15 minutes. I do have a couple of digital cameras that I enjoy using, and a decent computer that I bought because I need it for other purposes. But those were expensive items. And I still don't have a photo printer, because the ones I consider worth buying I can't afford. On the other hand I have a couple of really, really top-notch film cameras -- arguably some of the best cameras ever made -- that I bought for a fraction of the cost of my decent-but-far-from-the-best digital cameras. From a use point of view, a 10, 20, 30 or 40 year old film camera is much more valuable than a comparably aged digital. Digital means buying equipment ... again, and again, and again. And my first DSLR I couldn't wait to get rid of because it wouldn't do basic things that I used to be able to do on my old Olympus OM-1 (like mirror lock-up). Oh yes -- and every time you get a newer, higher-resolution sensor, you'll find that your fast computer and big hard drive are suddenly slow and small again. By contrast, my enlarger projects fine-grained Portra just as well as relatively-course-grained HP5.

3. All modern films are amazing. Kodak, Ilford and Fuji, along with some of the smaller manufacturers like Foma and Maco/Rollei have invested incredible time, energy and money into producing materials that render tone and colour in truly beautiful ways. It's not, of course, that you can't do these things in Photoshop (another annual expense btw) but that most people just don't have the time and energy to spend figuring out how to render a tone curve just so. Instead most users just push the saturation and sharpening sliders until they destroy the integrity of their image. The speed advantage of digital is at least to a large extent offset by the time it takes to really master Photoshop to achieve what, to a large extent, is already built into modern films and papers. (I'm just learning colour printing at the moment, and I used to worry at the lack of control offered by colour papers. And instead I'm just blown away at the job they do 'out the box').

4. The images will still be there in 30 years. I want to look up a document I wrote once at university. Here, have a look for a XYwrite file on this 5.25" floppy disk... Computers fail. Formats change. Those backups you carefully took get misplaced -- or the restore software doesn't exist any more -- or the disk format changes, or the CDs you wrote on have delaminated with age, or your new computer no longer has a SCSI / Firewire / USB-A connector. For all the promise of perfect, reliable copies, digital technology has been a terrible, terrible disappointment when it comes to durability. By contrast, pick up a book that was published 150 years ago. It might smell a bit musty, have a bit of mould growing on it; the pages might be yellowed but it is still as clearly readable as the day it was printed. Likewise, negatives are really durable and if processed and stored with even marginal care, remain printable for a very, very long time. Now imagine if Van Gogh or Monet had worked in digital media. We would almost certainly never have been enriched by their paintings. Okay, maybe I am not the next Van Gogh, but perhaps that judgement should really be left for others, no?

5. It's a refuge. We experience a daily barrage of networked information. I used to spend 8 hours a day at work and a couple more at home sitting at a computer making software, and more recently analyzing data and reading & writing papers. Is this how I want to spend my hobby time? For me, no. Again for me, the process of slowing down, looking with care at the world we are in, and carefully trying to capture some aspect of it in a physical artifact that I can touch, feel, smell, is a break from that constant assault of the 24 hour news cycle, the pressures and distortions of social media, the constant sense of urgency that the world throws at us. It is a peaceful and mindful experience producing beautiful (hopefully) objects.

5. It makes us happy. This is arguably the most important. Nobody can tell you what medium is right for you. Don't believe anyone who tells you that you ought to be shooting this or that way. For every reason I have given above about why to shoot film, there are other reasons to shoot digital. It is your time, money and energy you are investing, and you should invest it in the medium that makes you happier. For me nothing touches the exciting sense of possibility when I load film into a camera; the sense of paying attention when composing an image I'm investing in; the sense of almost-miraculous wonder as funny-smelling chemicals and arcane rituals of temperature and time-keeping turn the latent image into a negative, and the sheer satisfaction of watching an image develop on a piece of paper in a tray of developer. If you are more satisfied by fulfilling your vision through the technological marvel that is silicon sensors, modern software, and the undisputed excellence of modern inkjet printers, then that is what you should do.


Oh - you also asked about places to buy and process film. I see you're in the UK where you're blessed with a lot of options. I've had really good experienced dealing with the people at AG Photographic, and I order a lot of my materials from them even though I'm across the water in The Netherlands. But there are lots of other options.

Have a happy Sunday!

Hi,
#'s 3, 5, & 6 are the only valid points.
If you've purchased film, chemicals, had film processed, or purchased a decent film scanner lately you will know it's not cheap.
It's not fair to include the cost of a computer or software because you already have it or wouldn't be here. You'd still need it to share your images on the web.
Granted a negative or slide will last 100+ years, it's too early to tell the life span of digital media. If your image matters you'll find a way to preserve it.
While I agree that the new films are fantastic they still are limited to ISO's under 1000. I shoot astrophotography, there is no reciprocity failure with digital, I can capture photos of the Milkyway and galaxies in seconds. What I'm getting at is both media's have their place in photography and art (maybe not here through).
It's FUN is probably the best answer and their are so many wonderful old cameras and lenses out there to play with. I shoot digital but carry a medium format camera along for fun.
Rick
 

Cropline

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Better? Stronger? Faster?.....Cropline

Not quite, more like between 2500-3000 USD. never happen though, no one will buy one even though they say they would kill to buy a new film camera.

A little Lee Majors/Steve Austin drivel, there.
 

Chan Tran

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I don't think the question should be asked. What if someone ask the reverse question "Why don't you shoot film?" which a lot of people are not doing these days.
 

TomNY

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When I've been asked this question in a condescending way, which has happened a couple of times, I've replied "If you have to ask the question, you wouldn't understand". One big reason for me is being able to own and use all the great cameras that I could only dream of owning as a young guy. They were great 30 or 40 years ago and still are today.
 

Alan Gales

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When I've been asked this question in a condescending way, which has happened a couple of times, I've replied "If you have to ask the question, you wouldn't understand". One big reason for me is being able to own and use all the great cameras that I could only dream of owning as a young guy. They were great 30 or 40 years ago and still are today.

When they are condescending I tell them that I shoot 8x10 and the closest I can find to that in digital is a $30,000 digital back. I tell them that if they want to buy me one I'll try it out. No takers so far! :D
 

rthollenbeck

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Working with film and paper is a well perfected system. I really enjoy it. Film is a different anamal that digital that has its own strengths and weekness.
I use digital for the convinces of it. I use film because I know the system and there are things I can do with that system and do it well. I can achieve a look I desire from film. I also think film has a certain look that can't be had from digital (at least not by me).
While there are color films I like quite a bit. B&W is what I want to work in.

Large Format can be a quite different process from digital and Point & Shoot. I'm not saying it's better but LF is slow and deliberate like it or not. One can take their time shooting in any media but if you don't do LF in a by the numbers method, your going to miss something and adversely effect your shot.
 

Bill Burk

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Most of the effort that goes into a photograph is getting to the place at the time and with the people or things you want to photograph.

You can press the shutter release on any kind of camera at that moment.

And the question is what you want to take back with you...

I agree rthollenbeck, you can take your time with any medium. Taking the time is what matters, and film naturally encourages that when shooting certain films or formats. Like when I shoot Panatomic-X, you can bet I'll be using a tripod. I would feel silly setting up a cell phone on a tripod.
 
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